Thomas Hawk's Digital Connection

Monday, June 19, 2006

Why an Open API is Important to the Web 2.0 Social Contract


Update: Flickr's Stewart Butterfield has responded to this blog post down in the comments section.


"Man is born free; and everywhere he is in chains. One thinks himself the master of others, and still remains a greater slave than they. How did this change come about? I do not know. What can make it legitimate? That question I think I can answer." Jean Jacques Rousseau.

A lot of charged language has been flying around over the past four days or so with regards to Flickr and what rights their users ought or ought not to have with regards to their content. It started off with a thread in Flickr Central when Google launched their new Picasa photo sharing app and has escalated from there to Digg, TechCrunch and now Slashdot.

As I've been involved in the recent debate since it started I wanted to offer up my thoughts on the matter at hand. It's important to note that yesterday I joined Zooomr, a direct competitor to Flickr. I've kept quiet on the posts over the weekend because I wanted to announce that before offering up anything more on the subject than I already have.

As one of Flickr's heaviest users I feel that I have a decent understanding of the situation and problem at present.

A number of months back Anil Dash wrote a post called "The Interesting Economy." In this post Anil posed the most basic question of all from a Flickr user's perspective, "what's in it for me?"

From Anil: "But interestingness in Flickr doesn't pay. At least not yet. Non-pro users are seeing ads around my photos, but Yahoo's not sharing the wealth with me, even though I've created a draw. Flickr's plenty open, they're doing the right thing by any measure of the web as we saw it a year ago, or two years ago. Today, though, openness around value exchange is as important as openness around data exchange."

Caterina Fake responded to Anil with the following: "Everyone needs to get paid, businesses need to thrive. I don't begrudge blogs like Anil's their AdSense links, or Flickr displaying ads on free accounts (I may have a bias there). But monetization strategy or no, the culture of generosity is the very backbone of the internet. It is why I have always loved it."

At the time, and still today, I agree with Caterina Fake. I have always felt that I've gotten much more out of Flickr than money could ever provide and thus I've felt it more than a fair deal. I don't need to be paid by Flickr. I enjoy the generosity that Caterina speaks of and love the share and share alike spirt of Flickr. And over the past year I've spent hours and hours and hours working away at my flickrstream. Uploading new photos every day, meticulously documenting my images with detailed tags, building friends and making contacts, enjoying and sharing with everyone I meet, and participating actively in many different groups and conversations on the site. But lately I've been having some second thoughts.

The central issue around the recent debate is not whether or not you can get your photographs out of Flickr. Slashdot got this really wrong when they wrote, "yet Flickr's API only allows uploading, not exporting." There are several tools that have already been developed to allow exporting out of Flickr. Downloadr and Slickr come to mind immediately.

You absolutely can get your photographs out of Flickr your photos are not locked up. Flickr is not the roach motel that others have been making it out to be.

What is at issue is not your photos, but the metadata associated with your photos. At present Flickr does not keep the tags that you use to name and organize your photos in the photo files themselves. Rather these tags are part of a larger Flickr database that Flickr associates with your images. And this is the real issue to focus on. How can you as a user, and should you as a user, be able to easily get all of your photos and the metadata associated with them out of flickr and on to a competitive platform.

Recently Zooomr requested a Commercial API from Flickr. This request, in part, was based on a desire to create an easy way for users to migrate their photos and metadata over to Zooomr should they want to try/use the Zooomr service. Zooomr was denied this request by Flickr. Other sites, like Tabblo, who is perhaps viewed as less of a direct competitor to Flickr than Zooomr have been given API keys and have in fact used them to create tools that easily allow a user the ability to transfer their photos and metadata over to their service. I personally used the tabblo service and tool to transfer all my flickr photos and metadata there and you can check out how complete a transfer it was at my tabblo page here.

I think that it was a mistake to deny Zooomr this request. I think it was a mistake because at the foundation of this great thing that we call Web 2.0 I believe there exists a social contract between companies and their users that trumps business interests. Perhaps I'm being naive here but I firmly believe that the user's needs must always come first for any Web 2.0 company. As businesses profit from the free labor, goodwill and generosity that Caterina Fake writes of, I believe that while they may not be owed actual compensation, that they are owed every effort to protect their rights, privileges and control over that which they create and contribute.

It is very very cool how easy it was to transfer my entire flickrstream and all of the associated metadata easily and seamlessly over to tabblo. It should be that easy for any other site I choose to use as well. And while it should not be incumbent on Flickr to build the tools to do this, they should make their API available to other companies who would like to build these import tools nonetheless. They should do this because it's the right thing to do from their side of the user generated contract.

And I think Flickr feels this way too. In fact it should be noted that after denying Zooomr's original request, Flickr's Stewart Butterfield has expressed that he has had a change of heart with regards to allowing competitors access to Flickr commercial API keys and will most likely grant these requests if a competitor also agrees to allow Flickr access to their open API. I applaud this effort but in fact still think it needs to go a tad further. I do think that flickr should open up their API for building import/export tools for competitors irrespective of the status of their API. Again, I may be living in a utopia here, but I do believe that in the end doing the right thing always wins out. And if other sites want to stay closed while Flickr stays open then I think in the end users will respect Flickr all the more for this and it will create a stronger bond between them and their users. Zooomr by the way is committed to an open API and Kris is working on the finishing touches on Zooomr's as I write this.

One final thing. I think that in this entire debate Flickr has at times been portrayed as the bad guy here. This could not be further from the truth. In fact, Flickr has probably done more for user's rights and ability to control their content then just about any Web 2.0 company that exists today. They have popularized the Creative Commons license. They have routinely listened to and actively engaged their users. They have created broad tools to allow users to offer varying degrees of access, privacy and control over their images. They have carefully cultivated an environment of mutual respect between they and their users and have constantly fought for the rights of these users. They will likely even change their position with regards to granting competitors Commercial API keys. They have been about as fine an example of good stewardship in the user generated contract as exists today. In all of this I think it's unfair for anyone to suggest otherwise.

19 Comments:

Blogger Stewart said...

Extremely disappointed to see you post this Thomas. Are we supposed to believe that it *just* occured to you on the weekend that you might go work for Zooomr?

This stunt didn't work very well (see the comments on TechCrunch or Digg) - and I don't think it's going to work any better if you push it harder. Especially until you allow users to export their data from Zooomr, you shouldn't be complaining about us. You know very well that we had "changed our position" before Kris got his stuff posted on TechCrunch.

You'll be successful or not based in large measure by the quality of your product and the quality of your service. We're happy to let users export to Zooomr, but neither that nor these cheesy tactics are going to make a long term difference to your success.

10:05 AM  
Blogger Chris Heuer said...

I have to agree with Stewart in one respect if not more - it needs to be a share and share alike model for it to be a Web 2.0 Social Contract - as I understand it, that is the most used Creative Commons license model, but I may be mistaken. Regardless, it is not a fair competition unless everyone plays by the same rules.

Doing the right thing for the customers would be ensuring that any service the customer wants to transfer their data to should also easily let them transfer their data out of the service if that time should ever come. It is not appropriate to let some 3rd party migrate a user away into a situation where the user can not switch back easily or switch to another service.

And yes Thomas, Flickr has been inappropriately portrayed as the bad guy - they are one of the leaders and are most responsive to customer needs. To see the media and certain competitors jump on them while in the middle of an open deliberation process and make them out as such does not seem appropriate.

I respect you and your work immensely, but the way this debate is being framed and staged does not leave a good taste in my mouth. Especially when previously corrected facts continue to be published in a way intended to shed negative light on a competitor. I can see some good points on both sides of the argument, but I am less likely to support someone's position when they are playing the PR game instead of keeping it real and completely above board.

11:04 AM  
Blogger Thomas Hawk said...

Stewart, you misread my comments if you feel that I am complaining about Flickr. Irrespective of Zooomr this debate is fundamentally about allowing users portability of their data. I would feel the same way whether I was working with them or not.

And I'm not pushing anything. I'm clarifying my views on the portability of user data.

You absolutely changed your position prior to Tech Crunch's article and if you go back and read the comments on the Tech Crunch article you will note that the third comment in the article written by me to Mike Arrington was in fact documentation to this fact. I was the first person to point this out to the Tech Crunch crowd before the comments took off from there.

I also don't believe that Flickr's decision to allow people to export data to Zooomr has much to do with their long term success either. Like you I too agree that if Zooomr is to be succesful it will be based on the exact things you mention, quality of product, quality of service, etc.

This conversation is not about Zooomr and Flickr. It's about the fact that there should exist portability for users for the content that they contribute to Web 2.0 properties. And I suspect that you and I largely agree on that point.

11:19 AM  
Blogger Thomas Hawk said...

"And yes Thomas, Flickr has been inappropriately portrayed as the bad guy - they are one of the leaders and are most responsive to customer needs. To see the media and certain competitors jump on them while in the middle of an open deliberation process and make them out as such does not seem appropriate."

Chris. I agree with you about Flickr being inappropriately portrayed as the bad guy here which is why I wanted to make sure and clarify that I for one do *not* feel this way as I think I have done in this post.

While I may have been critical of Flickr's original position not to grant competitors API keys to build migration tools. I think all who read this know that Flickr has most likely changed their position here (and again I was the first one to point this out at TechCrunch). I have nothing but the best opinion and respect for Stewart and Flickr and the entire team at Flickr and for the good work that they have done.

11:22 AM  
Blogger Stewart said...

Look, Thomas, you can run things any way you want. I told you on the phone on Sunday that I thought you should be careful after you announce working for Zooomr because you lose the privilege of being a neutral third party observer.

You made your comments on Flickr without disclosing your potential involvement with Zooomr. And I bit my tongue throughout the TechCrunch thread and didn't say anything about it. But when you have a direct financial interest in a given conversation you have an obligation to be direct about it.

The reason I was pretty sure you were working with Zooomr before you wrote me was the timing of your posts and the language you used (exactly the same as Kristopher, and on the same day). I'm not dumb, and neither are a lot of the people who will read this stuff.

Couching this in "a lot of people are saying negative stuff about Flickr, but *I* for one don't believe it" is no different than a politician saying "many have accused my opponent of being a child molester, but *I* for one don't believe it". It's the same cheap rhetorical strategy.

And I was fine with the TechCrunch and Digg threads. I think that the overwhelming majority of readers and commenters were pretty clear on what was going on.

Re: "As one of Flickr's heaviest users I feel that I have a decent understanding of the situation and problem at present." Yeah? What's the problem exactly? As I very patiently explained to you on Sunday, there are many reasons why a standards based approach for import/export is the only way you get real interoperability and what the potential downsides are to focussing on the API. But the point is moot since we're willing to give Zooomr an API key.

I'm bowing out of this conversation now, but I'll say one more time that you'll do much better focussing on the quality of the product and the services around it than playing this game.

11:53 AM  
Blogger Thomas Hawk said...

Stewart, the fact that I have an interest in Zooomr in no way changes my view that users data ought to be portable. I've believed this far before I'd ever heard of Zooomr.

Are you suggesting that because I have a financial interest in Zooomr that I ought not be allowed to have an opinion on the portability of users data in Web 2.0? My views are every bit as valid as your views irrespecitve of the fact that you may work for Flickr and I may work for Zooomr.

And my language is in no way couching at all. I sincerely believe that Flickr is a great consumer focused company. One of the best out there in fact. You've seen the work I've put into Flickr over the past year. Would I have spent all that time if I had a negative view of the company? I obviously feel very very powerfully positive about flickr. For you to somehow read my words of support for Flickr as somehow hidden missives of criticism is absurd.

Certainly though I have been vocal when I've felt critically about things about flickr in the past. There's nothing wrong with that.

It feels as though you would suggest that because I'm working with Zooomr now that I'm incapable of having an unbiased opinion on the portibility of user data. This too is absurd. I'd have the same opinion about the portibility of data whether I worked for Zooomr or not.

And as to your challenge, "what's the problem." The problem is simple. At present there is no easy way to export all of the metadata associated with my photographs on flickr out of flickr and into another platform. My tags very much are trapped at flickr. And I'm more than the casual user. I've got over 5,000 photos stored on flickr and flickr is the only place (other than tabblo where you allow importing the images and granted them an API key to do so) where these tags exist today. I can't get at this data without manually re-entering it all. That is in fact a problem. But it's a problem that you are aware of and I believe are addressing the correct way by changing your opinion on granting competitors API keys.

And your statement that a standards based approach for import/export is the only way you get real interoperability is in fact false. This is not the only way. On Sunday you suggested to me that this could be accomplished by writing the metadata back to the photo file and this could be developed down the line. This is not how it is being done with tabblo today. Tabblo instead has been granted a flickr api key and is pulling directly from the flickr database. Probably the easiest and most efficient way to get this data transferred across and probably the right way given that it is the least impactful to the user.

For you to suggest that an interoperability solution that involves writing the tags to the image file is the *only* way is misleading and inaccurate.

But as you say this point is in fact moot as you are willing to give Zooomr an API key and I'd argue as you should and as you should grant to any other competitor that would like to build an import tool to allow users portability of their data. The data first and foremost belongs to the users not flickr. You are paid to maintain it and to provide a great experience with it for them. And because of this you benefit and have benefited greatly.

Bottom line today. I can get my tags to tabblo (they got an API key), but I can't get them to Zooomr or Picasa or Webshots or even to my own damn hard drive.

This should not be a hostile conversation. Flickr is doing the right thing by opening up their API to competitors. I agree with you that flickr is doing the right thing. As I've stated more than once now Flickr is in fact the type of company that consistently has and I'm confident will in the future continue doing the right thing for their cusomters. I have nothing but the highest respect for you and flickr and your entire team and a great appreciation for your roles as consumer advocates in the world of photo sharing.

But for you to insinuate that I have nefarious reasons for wanting user portability with their data is off. And for you to suggest that my feelings on this are some kind of a game or a charade or anything but sincere is equally off.

I do plan on spending many hours in the days ahead working on Zooomr functionality as you recommend that I do. But I also will free to speak my mind of subjects that I feel are important. Before I was ever affiliated with Zooomr I was first and foremost a blogger and a photographer. And a passionate photographer who has spent literally thousands of hours on your website building up *my* data. For you to think that I shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion on how that data ought to now be handled and the issues surrounding it's portability because I'm now in your words "no longer a neutral third party" is also absurd.

And again you somehow want to indicate that I was part of some "TechCrunch Game" when you don't address that it was I who posted the third comment on the original post defending Flickr and in fact pointing out that you had changed your opinion on this so that Mike Arrington's readers would have a proper understanding of the situation. I also personally emailed Mike of this fact when I first saw the post. And that was the only post I made in the entire thread other than this blog entry which I've written today and which I still stand by.

12:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thomas / Davis is a punk

3:27 PM  
Blogger Davis Freeberg said...

I'm not sure why you have to drag me into this debate, but I actually take pride in being a punk. You should remember though that Hot Topic is not punk rock.

3:55 PM  
Anonymous surfsidekick said...

Yes, an open API is critical to growth, any way you look at it.

AJ

4:40 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

[Yawn]

Hawk and his blog thrive off a bit of controversy, much like uninteresting people at parties who try to make themselves appear interesting by being opinionated and argumentative.

This Flickr/Zooomr API controversy appears to have been created and promoted entirely by TH. And I'm sure it'll be successful as the recent Photography is not a crime post (and it's predecessor) at boosting his blog's ad impressions. I wonder who's cage he'll rattle next...

8:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon, re: "much like uninteresting people at parties who try to make themselves appear interesting by being opinionated and argumentative"

- Dude, that's a bit harsh. There's some interesting stuff on this blog. And it's an important discussion.

1:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the metadata got to tabblo why can't Spouting Thomas upload it to zoooomr from there?

9:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the metadata got to tabblo why can't Spouting Thomas upload it to zoooomr from there?

9:49 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm still waiting for my Zooomr api key ;) I emailed the address listed at http://blog.zooomr.com/2006/03/27/attention-developers/ with no answer. People cannot make nice scripts and programs to help others if they can't get an API key. (note, this is non-commercial)

Zooomr has great product evangelists such as Mr. Hawk, but it's time to back up the hype with some features ;) As it stands now, I wouldn't pay for a pro account, but I hope that will change in the upcoming year.

5:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lotro gold
lord of the rings gold
lord of the rings online gold
lotro gold
lord of the rings gold
lord of the rings online gold
Warhammer gold
Warhammer online gold
Warhammer money
War gold
War money
Tabula Rasa Credit
lotro gold
lord of the rings gold
lord of the rings online gold
lord of the rings online gold
lord of the rings gold
Tabula Rasa Credit
World of Warcraft gold
PotBS Doubloon
Pirates of the Burning Sea Doubloon
PotBS Gold
Pirates of the Burning Sea Gold
lotro gold
lord of the rings gold
lord of the rings online gold
Tabula Rasa Credit
Warhammer gold
Warhammer online gold
PotBS Doubloon
PotBS gold
Age of Conan gold
Age of Conan gold
Pirates of the Burning Sea gold
Pirates of the Burning Sea Doubloon

gy

4:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

hy
wow power leveling
wow power leveling
wow power leveling
wow power leveling
wow powerleveling
wow powerleveling
wow powerleveling
wow powerleveling
wow gold
wow gold
world of warcraft power leveling
world of warcraft power leveling
wow power level
wow power level
power leveling wow
power leveling wow
power leveling wow
powerleveling wow
powerleveling wow
cheap wow power leveling
Maple Story mesos
MapleStory mesos
ms mesos
mesos
SilkRoad Gold
SRO Gold
SilkRoad Online Gold
eq2 plat
eq2 gold
eq2 Platinum
EverQuest 2 Platinum
EverQuest 2 gold
EverQuest 2 plat
lotro gold
lotr gold
Lord of the Rings online Gold
Rolex Replica
Replica Rolex

6:07 PM  
Blogger SEO said...

  心中一阵不安升降机,因为我忽然又想起了那道剑光升降平台,可怕的剑光升降台,美丽的剑光登车桥。为什么那一剑是那么的美丽货架,却又那么的可怕呢集装袋?在我倒下之前我说地磅,好美的剑塑料托盘,好恨的剑塑料托盘。我倒下了仓储笼。在我失去知觉之前仓储笼,我听到他说北京货架,这叫艺术超市货架,剑的艺术北京货架

  我并没有死广州货架,原来我的心是在右边仓储货架,而是不是左边货架厂。所以在那穿胸一剑之下我并没有死南京货架

  是一阵暴雨把我冲醒了货架公司。听说雨是上天的眼泪深圳货架,也许这天又有人死在那美丽的剑光之下吧服装货架!我张开嘴巴托盘,任雨水打进我的嘴托盘,直冲我的胃塑料托盘。我的伤口又开始流血塑料托盘,但已经不痛了木托盘。试问:仓储笼一个心已经死了的人仓储笼,肉体上的疼痛又算得了什么呢仓储笼?我知道我的刀再练一百年也无法那么美丽仓储笼,那么恨托盘,而且永远别想杀了他托盘

  我退出江湖了手推车,我没有通知江湖上的朋友们静音手推车,并来一个什么金盆洗手静音手推车,因为我的朋友们差不多都被他杀了置物架。我悄悄的走了置物架,隐进了山林之中堆垛架。俨然一个世外高人的样子堆垛架,每天一壶绿茶登高车,放在身边的几上登高车,然后或盯着一朵白云超市手推车,或盯着一片树叶物流手推车,或双目紧闭物流台车。我的刀在玉盆中泡了七七四十九天角钢货架,已经没有血腥味了角钢货架。然后我把它放在我的屋顶轻型货架,任它风吹雨打轻型货架

  十年就这年过去了中型货架。为何今天天忽然想起那柄剑中型货架,那道剑光重型货架?而且内心为什么如此不安重型货架?不应该是这样的仓库货架,对于一个喝了十年绿茶的人来说服装货架,面对死上海货架,也已不再惧怕精品货架,不再不安苏州货架,但今天又为何如此呢托盘货架

  莫非是他青岛货架,和他的剑库房货架,加上他的剑光沈阳货架。我已不问江湖之事天津货架,想他十年前也应该坐上武林盟主的位子了杭州货架,一个武林中人做了武林盟主山东货架,这一生还有什么要求的呢文件柜

  我不停的喝着绿茶工具柜。绿茶静心工具柜。但此时怎么也静不下来零件柜。茶已尽工作台。平时茶尽之时工作台,正也是日落之时工作桌

  一定快有什么事情发生了工作桌

  剑还是那美丽的剑Google左侧排名,如果再加上一道剑光吹塑机,就会形成剑的艺术色带,武学的艺术电源插座

  我问反光背心:为何还来找我滚针轴承,我已在十年之前就退出江湖了夜光粉

  他说文化石:因为你没死缎带,因为我没有对手风火轮

  我说激光打标机:十年前已不是你的对手平衡机,何况现在十年未动刀大功率led

  他说磁力泵:放眼天下梯子,只有你一个人是我的对手网眼袋,也只你一个人对我的威胁无尘布

  我不再说话手摇手电筒,因为我不知道说什么手板,我知道我十年前就开始找我毛巾布,发现我没有死就开始找我磁钢。我不死促销台,他心不安模具钢材

  他说时尚配饰:拿出你的刀筛网

  我说齿轮泵:我已无刀天使花房,命托辊,亦可有可无色丁

  他盯着我广告衫,握剑的手越来越紧钢坯,我知道那道美丽的剑光可能随时发出过滤网。在那美丽过后疏水阀,我的生命将画上句号胸章

  阳光照在了刀上发热管,反射到他的脸上手机耳机。他发现了那把刀螺杆,我的刀插销,宝刀蝴蝶,没有鞘的刀工具包

  刀已在我手中点钞机,刀还是那把刀配电箱,人却已不是那个人流苏,因为心不是那颗心沙滩巾

  他为了杀我竟找了我十年氯化镁,而为了和我比武竟帮我从屋顶拿下我的刀来双面胶带,并放在我的手中碳纤维。我忽然发现排线,他也变了汽车座垫,他在后悔十年前将所有高手都杀绝珍珠奶茶

  高手的悲哀太阳伞
  我握紧了刀桥架,我看着他的眼tpr,已经不再像十年前那样明亮了钢丝

  他的剑划出柴油发电机组,划出一道美丽的剑光护栏。我想围栏,这十年他大概在不停地使自己的剑光更美围栏

  我的刀也出了隔离网。简单的动作隔离网,一刀刺进了他的胸网片。那道美丽的光忽然停止网片,停在我的衣服上南京货架

  他说北京货架:这也是艺术北京货架,杀人的艺术北京货架,想不到你十年不动刀还懂这个艺术仓储货架

  我说仓储货架:因为我不想再让你痛苦了广州货架

  他说广州货架:谢谢货架厂

  我走了货架公司。我头也不回的走了塑料托盘。没有取回我的刀塑料托盘,因为我觉得它在我身边已经没用塑料托盘,我后悔我十年前为什么不扔了它塑料托盘?我听到了尸体倒下的声音塑料托盘。我流泪了塑料托盘,我真的不想杀他仓储笼,十年前不想仓储笼,十年后也不想仓储笼,因为我下山时答应过师父仓储笼,一切让着他仓储笼

  我叹了一口气仓储笼。远去仓储笼

7:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

济南市龙威液压机械有限公司是专业生产液压升降机,是国内领先的升降机及升降平台的生产厂家。RAID数据恢复是“Redundant Array of Independent Disk”的缩写,中文意思是独立冗余磁盘阵列。另外还有数据恢复服务器数据恢复等恢复方式。

“加密狗“的工作原理?加密狗内置单片机电路(也称CPU),使得加密锁具有判断、分析的处理能力,增强了主动的反解密能力。我们致力于提供一流的同声传译设备租赁服务,在同声传译领域,同声翻译设备租赁具备一流的新一代博世会议设备租赁服务。

8:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Buy cheap WOW Power Leveling,sell wow gold.welcome to buy cheap wow gold-We can have WOW PowerLeveling,buy wow gold game, World Of Warcraft Gold,wow Gold, world of warcraft gold deal,Cheap WOW Gold. Welcome here to buy the professional World Of Warcraft Power Leveling service, World Of Warcraft PowerLeveling for Cheap Wow Powerleveling, WoW Power leveling Guide.

Alcohol Tester purchasing center is a professional enterprise Breathalyser,Breathalyzer specializes in breath Gas Alarm consulting,Gas Detector through internet.Co Detector,Co Alarm always have been designed to alarm.

8:33 PM  

Post a Comment

Links to this post:

Create a Link

<< Home