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	<title>Comments on: The Dunsmuir Estate&#8217;s No Photography Policy Sucks, Oh Yeah and So Does Their Bait and Switch Admission Scam (Updated)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thomashawk.com/2009/08/the-dunsmuir-estates-no-photography-policy-sucks-oh-yeah-and-so-does-their-bait-and-switch-admission-scam.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thomashawk.com/2009/08/the-dunsmuir-estates-no-photography-policy-sucks-oh-yeah-and-so-does-their-bait-and-switch-admission-scam.html</link>
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		<title>By: Thomas Hawk</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2009/08/the-dunsmuir-estates-no-photography-policy-sucks-oh-yeah-and-so-does-their-bait-and-switch-admission-scam.html/comment-page-1#comment-75435</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Hawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomashawk.com/?p=6597#comment-75435</guid>
		<description>Ernie, it sucks that you can&#039;t take photos inside the EMP too.  One of the reasons why I&#039;ve never visited it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ernie, it sucks that you can&#8217;t take photos inside the EMP too.  One of the reasons why I&#8217;ve never visited it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ernie</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2009/08/the-dunsmuir-estates-no-photography-policy-sucks-oh-yeah-and-so-does-their-bait-and-switch-admission-scam.html/comment-page-1#comment-75370</link>
		<dc:creator>Ernie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 02:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomashawk.com/?p=6597#comment-75370</guid>
		<description>Thomas - 110% agree.  Their website is a deception and should not be left as an &quot;oh well&quot;.  Non profit or not ethical behaviour has to mean something.  As for the no photography - I have been burned by this type of thing - you&#039;re in the facility only then to learn that there&#039;s no photography - Once I was at the EMP - Experience Music Project  in Seattle and they did that to me - I had a bessa RF and with Jimi Hendrix blaring in the background ( I am a JH fan) I shot away !  Public disobedience</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas &#8211; 110% agree.  Their website is a deception and should not be left as an &#8220;oh well&#8221;.  Non profit or not ethical behaviour has to mean something.  As for the no photography &#8211; I have been burned by this type of thing &#8211; you&#8217;re in the facility only then to learn that there&#8217;s no photography &#8211; Once I was at the EMP &#8211; Experience Music Project  in Seattle and they did that to me &#8211; I had a bessa RF and with Jimi Hendrix blaring in the background ( I am a JH fan) I shot away !  Public disobedience</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Hawk</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2009/08/the-dunsmuir-estates-no-photography-policy-sucks-oh-yeah-and-so-does-their-bait-and-switch-admission-scam.html/comment-page-1#comment-75341</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Hawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomashawk.com/?p=6597#comment-75341</guid>
		<description>Balex.  I did read the advert they sent me.  I didn&#039;t want to take the tour of the mansion.  I told that to the person taking tickets.  I simply wanted to view the estate.  My kids actually hated the tour as did I.  

I told the ticket taker that I didn&#039;t want to take the tour but she said that this was the only way to gain entrance.  I told her that estate only entrance was supposed to be free on the first Sunday and she said it was not.  That the only way to enter the Estate was to pay for tour tickets.  I tried to pull up the original email to review it at the time on my iPhone but I could not get reception there.  

I had zero interest in the tour, but once having paid decided that I may as well see it.  I regret I even did that as the whole thing was irritating to me as I hate going anywhere period where I can&#039;t take photos.  Nowhere was the no photography policy disclosed prior to the mansion -- either on the website or at the point of ticket purchase.

You say you don&#039;t know many museums where you can take photos?  Actually at most museums you can.  Here in SF that includes the de Young, Academy of Science, Exploratorium, The Legion of Honor, the SF MOMA, even small little museums like the Cable Car Museum.  In the East Bay you can take photos at the Oakland Museum of California, the Chabot Observatory, the Lawrence Hall of Science Museum.

Further afield I&#039;ve taken photos inside the Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, the Getty Museum in Los Angeles, The MET in New York, The Chicago Art Institute in Chicago. 

In terms of historic homes/estates the only ones I&#039;ve ever visited are Hearst Castle, the Filoli Estate in Woodside, the Pittock Mansion in Portland and the Pardee Home in Oakland&#039;s Preservation Park.  

Every single one of the above museums allows photography.  With the exception of some contemporary arts museums who cite copyright concerns, in fact most museums allow personal photography.

Citing the concern of &quot;slowing the tour down,&quot; as a legitimate reason to restrict photography at the Dunsmuir Estate is lame and arbitrary.  They need to get with the times and remove this unnecessary and visitor unfriendly policy.  If they don&#039;t then they need to prominently advertise it on their website, emails and at the gate prior to people paying money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Balex.  I did read the advert they sent me.  I didn&#8217;t want to take the tour of the mansion.  I told that to the person taking tickets.  I simply wanted to view the estate.  My kids actually hated the tour as did I.  </p>
<p>I told the ticket taker that I didn&#8217;t want to take the tour but she said that this was the only way to gain entrance.  I told her that estate only entrance was supposed to be free on the first Sunday and she said it was not.  That the only way to enter the Estate was to pay for tour tickets.  I tried to pull up the original email to review it at the time on my iPhone but I could not get reception there.  </p>
<p>I had zero interest in the tour, but once having paid decided that I may as well see it.  I regret I even did that as the whole thing was irritating to me as I hate going anywhere period where I can&#8217;t take photos.  Nowhere was the no photography policy disclosed prior to the mansion &#8212; either on the website or at the point of ticket purchase.</p>
<p>You say you don&#8217;t know many museums where you can take photos?  Actually at most museums you can.  Here in SF that includes the de Young, Academy of Science, Exploratorium, The Legion of Honor, the SF MOMA, even small little museums like the Cable Car Museum.  In the East Bay you can take photos at the Oakland Museum of California, the Chabot Observatory, the Lawrence Hall of Science Museum.</p>
<p>Further afield I&#8217;ve taken photos inside the Norton Simon Museum in Pasadena, the Getty Museum in Los Angeles, The MET in New York, The Chicago Art Institute in Chicago. </p>
<p>In terms of historic homes/estates the only ones I&#8217;ve ever visited are Hearst Castle, the Filoli Estate in Woodside, the Pittock Mansion in Portland and the Pardee Home in Oakland&#8217;s Preservation Park.  </p>
<p>Every single one of the above museums allows photography.  With the exception of some contemporary arts museums who cite copyright concerns, in fact most museums allow personal photography.</p>
<p>Citing the concern of &#8220;slowing the tour down,&#8221; as a legitimate reason to restrict photography at the Dunsmuir Estate is lame and arbitrary.  They need to get with the times and remove this unnecessary and visitor unfriendly policy.  If they don&#8217;t then they need to prominently advertise it on their website, emails and at the gate prior to people paying money.</p>
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		<title>By: Balex</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2009/08/the-dunsmuir-estates-no-photography-policy-sucks-oh-yeah-and-so-does-their-bait-and-switch-admission-scam.html/comment-page-1#comment-75335</link>
		<dc:creator>Balex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomashawk.com/?p=6597#comment-75335</guid>
		<description>I think there might be some overreaction here - I was actually pretty surprised to read this. 

I also chose to take my kids to the Dunsmuir Estate on Sunday after reading the email, and I was fully aware that they would charge admission to the mansion - after all, it was pretty clearly stated right in the body of the email that the admission fee for the tour was $5. I agree that you should not have been charged for your children, but I do think you should have read the email before complaining. 

As for not being able to photograph, that rule only applies to the mansion itself. I agree the rules should be mentioned on the site, but at the same time I do not know of many museums where you can actually take photos inside. The grounds are beautiful, and I took plenty of lovely photos of my kids on Sunday with no trouble from anyone. 

People would do well to remember that this Estate is a non-profit, and does what it can to contribute to the East Bay. Obviously they are not working on a corporate budget, and have to rely on people who are kind enough to volunteer to take tickets at the door rather than trained employees. I am sure the estate will refund you for any errors made. But to complain about paying when you didn&#039;t bother to read the advert they sent you? That&#039;s just petty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there might be some overreaction here &#8211; I was actually pretty surprised to read this. </p>
<p>I also chose to take my kids to the Dunsmuir Estate on Sunday after reading the email, and I was fully aware that they would charge admission to the mansion &#8211; after all, it was pretty clearly stated right in the body of the email that the admission fee for the tour was $5. I agree that you should not have been charged for your children, but I do think you should have read the email before complaining. </p>
<p>As for not being able to photograph, that rule only applies to the mansion itself. I agree the rules should be mentioned on the site, but at the same time I do not know of many museums where you can actually take photos inside. The grounds are beautiful, and I took plenty of lovely photos of my kids on Sunday with no trouble from anyone. </p>
<p>People would do well to remember that this Estate is a non-profit, and does what it can to contribute to the East Bay. Obviously they are not working on a corporate budget, and have to rely on people who are kind enough to volunteer to take tickets at the door rather than trained employees. I am sure the estate will refund you for any errors made. But to complain about paying when you didn&#8217;t bother to read the advert they sent you? That&#8217;s just petty.</p>
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		<title>By: ShSimpson</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2009/08/the-dunsmuir-estates-no-photography-policy-sucks-oh-yeah-and-so-does-their-bait-and-switch-admission-scam.html/comment-page-1#comment-75310</link>
		<dc:creator>ShSimpson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomashawk.com/?p=6597#comment-75310</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know how old your children are but at any age mine would have gone kicking and screaming. They hated going to these sort of things.  I congratulate you on trying to give your children some culture.  

I have visited museums and estates all over the world and there really is a variety of what is allowed photographically.  I agree that they should absolutely make this known on their website and it is somewhat underhanded to not to.  I have visited sites that have not allowed photography and have quite enjoyed myself.  I just suck it up and begrudgingly accept their rules.  It is their property and their rules.  So long as there is no public money funneled to them, I don&#039;t see a big problem with them making a rule such as this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know how old your children are but at any age mine would have gone kicking and screaming. They hated going to these sort of things.  I congratulate you on trying to give your children some culture.  </p>
<p>I have visited museums and estates all over the world and there really is a variety of what is allowed photographically.  I agree that they should absolutely make this known on their website and it is somewhat underhanded to not to.  I have visited sites that have not allowed photography and have quite enjoyed myself.  I just suck it up and begrudgingly accept their rules.  It is their property and their rules.  So long as there is no public money funneled to them, I don&#8217;t see a big problem with them making a rule such as this.</p>
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		<title>By: Penny Porter</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2009/08/the-dunsmuir-estates-no-photography-policy-sucks-oh-yeah-and-so-does-their-bait-and-switch-admission-scam.html/comment-page-1#comment-75307</link>
		<dc:creator>Penny Porter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:01:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomashawk.com/?p=6597#comment-75307</guid>
		<description>Thank you for sharing. I can&#039;t believe they made you pay to get in on free family Sunday.In past years I would go there to take family portraits during the week and never had to pay. Do you know if they let photographers on the grounds to do outdoor portraits?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for sharing. I can&#8217;t believe they made you pay to get in on free family Sunday.In past years I would go there to take family portraits during the week and never had to pay. Do you know if they let photographers on the grounds to do outdoor portraits?</p>
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		<title>By: esubijano</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2009/08/the-dunsmuir-estates-no-photography-policy-sucks-oh-yeah-and-so-does-their-bait-and-switch-admission-scam.html/comment-page-1#comment-75235</link>
		<dc:creator>esubijano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 08:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomashawk.com/?p=6597#comment-75235</guid>
		<description>I recall taking my son there during one of their grade school field trips some years ago ... didn&#039;t enjoy the place at all and yeah, the &#039;no-photo&#039; policy made the experience even worse. Plus it was pouring hard that day and we had to walk back to the muddy parking lot after the tour. Definitely not a pleasant experience.

So they allow people to take photos at SFMOMA now? Cool. May have to visit the place this Tuesday. Free entrance on first Tuesday of the month, just so you know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recall taking my son there during one of their grade school field trips some years ago &#8230; didn&#8217;t enjoy the place at all and yeah, the &#8216;no-photo&#8217; policy made the experience even worse. Plus it was pouring hard that day and we had to walk back to the muddy parking lot after the tour. Definitely not a pleasant experience.</p>
<p>So they allow people to take photos at SFMOMA now? Cool. May have to visit the place this Tuesday. Free entrance on first Tuesday of the month, just so you know.</p>
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		<title>By: Digital Photography Live &#187; The Dunsmuir Estate’s No Photography Policy Sucks, Oh Yeah and So Does Their Bait and Switch Admission Scam</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2009/08/the-dunsmuir-estates-no-photography-policy-sucks-oh-yeah-and-so-does-their-bait-and-switch-admission-scam.html/comment-page-1#comment-75195</link>
		<dc:creator>Digital Photography Live &#187; The Dunsmuir Estate’s No Photography Policy Sucks, Oh Yeah and So Does Their Bait and Switch Admission Scam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 00:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomashawk.com/?p=6597#comment-75195</guid>
		<description>[...] more: The Dunsmuir Estate’s No Photography Policy Sucks, Oh Yeah and So Does Their Bait and Switch Admis...    Share this on del.icio.usDigg this!Post this on DiigoShare this on RedditBuzz up!Stumble upon [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] more: The Dunsmuir Estate’s No Photography Policy Sucks, Oh Yeah and So Does Their Bait and Switch Admis&#8230;    Share this on del.icio.usDigg this!Post this on DiigoShare this on RedditBuzz up!Stumble upon [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Roberto</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2009/08/the-dunsmuir-estates-no-photography-policy-sucks-oh-yeah-and-so-does-their-bait-and-switch-admission-scam.html/comment-page-1#comment-75193</link>
		<dc:creator>Roberto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomashawk.com/?p=6597#comment-75193</guid>
		<description>No video, no photos, more gain for the museum if sell photos and photobooks.
I understand  this prohibition only for use of the flash, not in all other cases.
More estate photos on the web is equal to more word-of-mouth and more visitors, imho</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No video, no photos, more gain for the museum if sell photos and photobooks.<br />
I understand  this prohibition only for use of the flash, not in all other cases.<br />
More estate photos on the web is equal to more word-of-mouth and more visitors, imho</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Hawk</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2009/08/the-dunsmuir-estates-no-photography-policy-sucks-oh-yeah-and-so-does-their-bait-and-switch-admission-scam.html/comment-page-1#comment-75188</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Hawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomashawk.com/?p=6597#comment-75188</guid>
		<description>Todd, at least this report is already on the first page of their &quot;Dunsmuir Estate&quot; Google search.  At least people locally here who might consider a visit can be warned about the fake free First Sunday scam along with the &quot;no photography&quot; policy before they consider a visit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd, at least this report is already on the first page of their &#8220;Dunsmuir Estate&#8221; Google search.  At least people locally here who might consider a visit can be warned about the fake free First Sunday scam along with the &#8220;no photography&#8221; policy before they consider a visit.</p>
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