Comments on: Just Got Off the Phone with the FBI… http://thomashawk.com/2009/02/just-got-off-the-phone-with-the-fbi.html Mon, 22 Mar 2010 04:07:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: TPM http://thomashawk.com/2009/02/just-got-off-the-phone-with-the-fbi.html/comment-page-1#comment-68619 TPM Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:42:48 +0000 http://thomashawk.com/?p=5721#comment-68619 Every story has two sides and we're all reading yours Mr. Hawk and that's probably why mostly everyone is taking your side. I'm certain that if we read the security guards side of the story it would be completely the opposite of what your saying. So who is telling the truth here? We'll never know, because your friend and your will stand with your story and the security guard will stand behing his. Every story has two sides and we’re all reading yours Mr. Hawk and that’s probably why mostly everyone is taking your side.
I’m certain that if we read the security guards side of the story it would be completely the opposite of what your saying.
So who is telling the truth here? We’ll never know, because your friend and your will stand with your story and the security guard will stand behing his.

]]> By: g http://thomashawk.com/2009/02/just-got-off-the-phone-with-the-fbi.html/comment-page-1#comment-31459 g Wed, 25 Mar 2009 23:23:04 +0000 http://thomashawk.com/?p=5721#comment-31459 "I assured Carter that I harbored no ill will towards the U.S. Government that I was a proud American, etc." Sounds similar to what some people said to the Nazis in WW2. “I assured Carter that I harbored no ill will towards the U.S. Government that I was a proud American, etc.”

Sounds similar to what some people said to the Nazis in WW2.

]]> By: TranceMist http://thomashawk.com/2009/02/just-got-off-the-phone-with-the-fbi.html/comment-page-1#comment-26479 TranceMist Thu, 19 Feb 2009 21:32:06 +0000 http://thomashawk.com/?p=5721#comment-26479 The fact that the FBI needs to waste tax money pursuing photographers is very troubling. The fact that the FBI needs to waste tax money pursuing photographers is very troubling.

]]> By: JFK http://thomashawk.com/2009/02/just-got-off-the-phone-with-the-fbi.html/comment-page-1#comment-26136 JFK Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:01:26 +0000 http://thomashawk.com/?p=5721#comment-26136 Every time the FBI comes up, they seem to rise to the level of their nickname: Famous But Incompetent I guess if you were a liberal, like Thomas Jefferson, or an anarchist like Lysander Spooner, and harbored "ill will" towards the government then you would be worth persecuting? Literally he asked you if you had committed a thought crime. Asinine. This is far more offensive than being run off by clueless security guards. Every time the FBI comes up, they seem to rise to the level of their nickname: Famous But Incompetent

I guess if you were a liberal, like Thomas Jefferson, or an anarchist like Lysander Spooner, and harbored “ill will” towards the government then you would be worth persecuting?

Literally he asked you if you had committed a thought crime. Asinine.

This is far more offensive than being run off by clueless security guards.

]]> By: John T. Hoffoss http://thomashawk.com/2009/02/just-got-off-the-phone-with-the-fbi.html/comment-page-1#comment-25602 John T. Hoffoss Thu, 12 Feb 2009 21:06:16 +0000 http://thomashawk.com/?p=5721#comment-25602 Thomas, I'm glad you're not reacting over the top like some of the commenters here and on FF. It may be a ghastly idea to some, but put yourself in an FBI agent's shoes. They took a job to protect a country they care deeply about. They're not around to intimidate photographers, but to investigate reports of suspicious activity. I think it's obvious how someone could find photographing refineries as suspicious, as you point out, it certainly is not illegal. The guards with Securitas were clearly in the wrong here, but the FBI will take these (and any other) reports seriously and <b>investigate</b> the claims. That doesn't mean they're going to brow-beat, intimidate or otherwise detain you. Every FBI agent I've ever met has been extremely intelligent, trained extensively to interview and investigate, and have the best intentions. The report from Securitas carries no more validity or credence than if I as a citizen had called to report your photography. Of course, if I called, it would've been to report your photography as too good... Keep your head level, and keep shooting! -jth Thomas,

I’m glad you’re not reacting over the top like some of the commenters here and on FF. It may be a ghastly idea to some, but put yourself in an FBI agent’s shoes. They took a job to protect a country they care deeply about. They’re not around to intimidate photographers, but to investigate reports of suspicious activity. I think it’s obvious how someone could find photographing refineries as suspicious, as you point out, it certainly is not illegal. The guards with Securitas were clearly in the wrong here, but the FBI will take these (and any other) reports seriously and investigate the claims. That doesn’t mean they’re going to brow-beat, intimidate or otherwise detain you. Every FBI agent I’ve ever met has been extremely intelligent, trained extensively to interview and investigate, and have the best intentions.

The report from Securitas carries no more validity or credence than if I as a citizen had called to report your photography. Of course, if I called, it would’ve been to report your photography as too good…

Keep your head level, and keep shooting!

-jth

]]> By: Andy Frazer http://thomashawk.com/2009/02/just-got-off-the-phone-with-the-fbi.html/comment-page-1#comment-25584 Andy Frazer Thu, 12 Feb 2009 17:41:55 +0000 http://thomashawk.com/?p=5721#comment-25584 Chris Carter, Terry Carter... close enough. Actually, Chris Carter is guy who made the "X-Files". Easy enough to get them confused when you're talking about the FBI and photographing government buildings. Not surprisingly, that "refinery" that you were photographing has been rumored to actually be a secret facility where they breed alien pods in giant hatchery. No, wait... now I'm getting the story confused with the X-Files, as well. Chris Carter, Terry Carter… close enough.

Actually, Chris Carter is guy who made the “X-Files”. Easy enough to get them confused when you’re talking about the FBI and photographing government buildings. Not surprisingly, that “refinery” that you were photographing has been rumored to actually be a secret facility where they breed alien pods in giant hatchery.

No, wait… now I’m getting the story confused with the X-Files, as well.

]]> By: Griffon http://thomashawk.com/2009/02/just-got-off-the-phone-with-the-fbi.html/comment-page-1#comment-25543 Griffon Thu, 12 Feb 2009 04:36:55 +0000 http://thomashawk.com/?p=5721#comment-25543 This is classic indirect intimidation. A sort of friendly putting you on notice and look here are some of the case notes we might have on you should we 'want' to do something official. You hit the big league you should immediately file a FOIA and demand your file :). This is classic indirect intimidation. A sort of friendly putting you on notice and look here are some of the case notes we might have on you should we ‘want’ to do something official. You hit the big league you should immediately file a FOIA and demand your file :) .

]]> By: kevin white http://thomashawk.com/2009/02/just-got-off-the-phone-with-the-fbi.html/comment-page-1#comment-25533 kevin white Thu, 12 Feb 2009 02:44:21 +0000 http://thomashawk.com/?p=5721#comment-25533 @adam weiss: Hopefully the letter says 'photographing' and not 'shooting'. I'm serious. @adam weiss: Hopefully the letter says ‘photographing’ and not ’shooting’.

I’m serious.

]]> By: adam weiss http://thomashawk.com/2009/02/just-got-off-the-phone-with-the-fbi.html/comment-page-1#comment-25525 adam weiss Thu, 12 Feb 2009 01:08:15 +0000 http://thomashawk.com/?p=5721#comment-25525 have you ever considered putting together some kind of preemptive boiler plate letter that could be shared with other photographers and faxed over to owners and property managers of places you'd like to shoot? something like "this is to inform you that we will be shooting during the week of blah blah from public property. we are within our rights to do so persuant to blah blah. we've had problems in the past with uninformed security and would appreciate it if you could ensure that we are not disturbed in our work. blah blah blah..." yeah sure, it kinda sucks. and yeah sure, you shouldn't have to do it. and yeah sure, it takes time. and yeah sure, it kinda spoils spontaneity. but that said, it would probably go a lot further to further your cause. in fact, you could possibly end up with a situation where you leave a nice trail of reformed photography policies in your wake. ..and in the case where they disagree... then you have some real meat to post on the internet... written arguments with those in charge who are clearly wrong and have had the time to think about their positions. have you ever considered putting together some kind of preemptive boiler plate letter that could be shared with other photographers and faxed over to owners and property managers of places you’d like to shoot? something like “this is to inform you that we will be shooting during the week of blah blah from public property. we are within our rights to do so persuant to blah blah. we’ve had problems in the past with uninformed security and would appreciate it if you could ensure that we are not disturbed in our work. blah blah blah…”

yeah sure, it kinda sucks. and yeah sure, you shouldn’t have to do it. and yeah sure, it takes time. and yeah sure, it kinda spoils spontaneity. but that said, it would probably go a lot further to further your cause. in fact, you could possibly end up with a situation where you leave a nice trail of reformed photography policies in your wake.

..and in the case where they disagree… then you have some real meat to post on the internet… written arguments with those in charge who are clearly wrong and have had the time to think about their positions.

]]> By: smiff http://thomashawk.com/2009/02/just-got-off-the-phone-with-the-fbi.html/comment-page-1#comment-25523 smiff Thu, 12 Feb 2009 01:01:38 +0000 http://thomashawk.com/?p=5721#comment-25523 A few weeks ago, I was kayaking around a refinery near Martinez, CA. End of the day, the tide was low and the only place to pull out was on their property. This lead to an encounter with their noticeably-armed security guards. They were very helpful, especially considering that unlike you we were technically trespassing, but they also took lots of info. A week later, got a phone call similar to yours, though only from the county sheriff's office. Same basic conversation. So far, nothing further. I assume that everyone involved has a pretty strict checklist and procedure to follow after any encounter with refinery security. From what I can tell, my guys passed along an accurate report of the incident. Your guys, hmmm.... A few weeks ago, I was kayaking around a refinery near Martinez, CA. End of the day, the tide was low and the only place to pull out was on their property. This lead to an encounter with their noticeably-armed security guards. They were very helpful, especially considering that unlike you we were technically trespassing, but they also took lots of info. A week later, got a phone call similar to yours, though only from the county sheriff’s office. Same basic conversation. So far, nothing further.

I assume that everyone involved has a pretty strict checklist and procedure to follow after any encounter with refinery security. From what I can tell, my guys passed along an accurate report of the incident. Your guys, hmmm….

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