Comments on: Port of Long Beach Responds to Incident of Photographer Harassment http://thomashawk.com/2008/12/port-of-long-beach-responds-to-incident.html Mon, 22 Mar 2010 12:00:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Thomas Hawk's Digital Connection: Long Beach Harbor Patrol S http://thomashawk.com/2008/12/port-of-long-beach-responds-to-incident.html/comment-page-1#comment-161252 Thomas Hawk's Digital Connection: Long Beach Harbor Patrol S Tue, 19 Jan 2010 23:16:05 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=30#comment-161252 [...] Update 2: on Digg here: http://digg.com/travel_places/Thomas_Hawk_s_Digital_Connection_Long_Beach_Harbor_Patrol_SUpdate 3: The Port of Long Beach’s Assistant Director of Communications Art Wong, responds to this incident here. [...] [...] Update 2: on Digg here: http://digg.com/travel_places/Thomas_Hawk_s_Digital_Connection_Long_Beach_Harbor_Patrol_SUpdate 3: The Port of Long Beach’s Assistant Director of Communications Art Wong, responds to this incident here. [...]

]]> By: retiredofficer http://thomashawk.com/2008/12/port-of-long-beach-responds-to-incident.html/comment-page-1#comment-157054 retiredofficer Thu, 14 Jan 2010 04:39:30 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=30#comment-157054 I am a retired police officer and did work in the areas mentioned above. If you are on public property, you are allowed to photograph any area, period. If you are a commercial photographer, a permit is required. It is not mandatory for you to identify yourself to the police station or headquarters involved. It is just you being courteous to local law enforcement so that when they stop you, they will quickly find out you already gave their station a "heads up". Sometimes they will already know photographers are in the area, as this information will have been provided at roll call. If you do not report in advance that you will be taking pictures, you will be stopped. They treat photography as highly suspicious activity and if they see you or someone reports you, they will be all over you. It's just that simple. The truth is that you are not even required to identify yourself if you are on public property and legally engaged in non-commercial photography. The police require reasonable suspicion or probable cause to demand id. This means that facts and circumstances must exist such that a reasonable officer believes that a crime was, is, or will be committed. A guy taking a photograph on a public sidewalk, barring other circumstances, will not likely rise to the level of reas. susp. or prob. cause. If you have highly technical equipment, legitimately fit some description, behave aggressively beyond mere annoyance at being stopped by police, run away, etc., then you are probably asking to be id'd. An arrest following a mere refusal to show id, absent other factors, will probably be voided at the station upon proper id, or dismissed, unless the officers make a case for disturbing the peace or something else. If you are arrested and that arrest is dismissed due to lack of evidence, you may have a good civil case against the department and/or officer(s) involved. The question is... do you want to be the test case? The civil trial judge will probably dismiss the case citing something along the lines of the officers having acted in good faith following 9/11. You will see things change when some young rookie beats the hell out of someone for photography and the agency has to pay out big following heavy media attention. Unfortunately, post 9/11, we have lost rights, no doubt about it. The laws protecting individuals have lost some of their strength. I really don't like this situation either. I'd be the officer politely and professionally interviewing the photographers while using my experience and investigative skills to determine whether they were up to no good. Ask for, not demand ID, and explain the reasons why. I'm sure most people would understand and cooperate. The police just cannot come off as being arrogant bullies. Of course, all bets are off if the photographer's behavior or evidence at the scene escalates the encounter. Protecting civil rights is just as important, if not more important than finding terrorists. We cannot let the fear of terrorism turn our country into a fascist state. I am a retired police officer and did work in the areas mentioned above. If you are on public property, you are allowed to photograph any area, period. If you are a commercial photographer, a permit is required. It is not mandatory for you to identify yourself to the police station or headquarters involved. It is just you being courteous to local law enforcement so that when they stop you, they will quickly find out you already gave their station a “heads up”. Sometimes they will already know photographers are in the area, as this information will have been provided at roll call. If you do not report in advance that you will be taking pictures, you will be stopped. They treat photography as highly suspicious activity and if they see you or someone reports you, they will be all over you. It’s just that simple. The truth is that you are not even required to identify yourself if you are on public property and legally engaged in non-commercial photography. The police require reasonable suspicion or probable cause to demand id. This means that facts and circumstances must exist such that a reasonable officer believes that a crime was, is, or will be committed. A guy taking a photograph on a public sidewalk, barring other circumstances, will not likely rise to the level of reas. susp. or prob. cause. If you have highly technical equipment, legitimately fit some description, behave aggressively beyond mere annoyance at being stopped by police, run away, etc., then you are probably asking to be id’d. An arrest following a mere refusal to show id, absent other factors, will probably be voided at the station upon proper id, or dismissed, unless the officers make a case for disturbing the peace or something else. If you are arrested and that arrest is dismissed due to lack of evidence, you may have a good civil case against the department and/or officer(s) involved. The question is… do you want to be the test case? The civil trial judge will probably dismiss the case citing something along the lines of the officers having acted in good faith following 9/11. You will see things change when some young rookie beats the hell out of someone for photography and the agency has to pay out big following heavy media attention. Unfortunately, post 9/11, we have lost rights, no doubt about it. The laws protecting individuals have lost some of their strength. I really don’t like this situation either. I’d be the officer politely and professionally interviewing the photographers while using my experience and investigative skills to determine whether they were up to no good. Ask for, not demand ID, and explain the reasons why. I’m sure most people would understand and cooperate. The police just cannot come off as being arrogant bullies. Of course, all bets are off if the photographer’s behavior or evidence at the scene escalates the encounter. Protecting civil rights is just as important, if not more important than finding terrorists. We cannot let the fear of terrorism turn our country into a fascist state.

]]> By: Panda http://thomashawk.com/2008/12/port-of-long-beach-responds-to-incident.html/comment-page-1#comment-111073 Panda Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:29:36 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=30#comment-111073 Actually....this just happened to me and 3 friends two nights back.... we were fishing and apparently were parked in a NO parking zone...so instead of asking us to move our vehicle...we get stopped... asked to put our hands were he can see them....and then "background checks" and then SEARCHED...and then questioned about our tattoos..eye color...All kind of IRRELEVANT Questions...for being in a parking spot that said "Parking from 8-11" and then..given a $50 ticket... I can understand the ticket....but the Questions...and the harassment.. and the searching??? how ridiculous!!! Actually….this just happened to me and 3 friends two nights back…. we were fishing and apparently were parked in a NO parking zone…so instead of asking us to move our vehicle…we get stopped… asked to put our hands were he can see them….and then “background checks” and then SEARCHED…and then questioned about our tattoos..eye color…All kind of IRRELEVANT Questions…for being in a parking spot that said “Parking from 8-11″ and then..given a $50 ticket… I can understand the ticket….but the Questions…and the harassment.. and the searching??? how ridiculous!!!

]]> By: errol mc donald http://thomashawk.com/2008/12/port-of-long-beach-responds-to-incident.html/comment-page-1#comment-107932 errol mc donald Wed, 14 Oct 2009 00:21:59 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=30#comment-107932 iam on public street and it so happens a post office was near doing my project for school lbcc pcc,i had to show my id and since iam a resident the police to know what kind of camera if it was dig camera, i was usinga film camera for my project then the police saying because of 9/11 and because the post office is near by the even wanted to know my social security num my prof name what class iam in so i told to visit my class he never came, haha. iam on public street and it so happens a post office was near doing my project for school lbcc pcc,i had to show my id and since iam a resident the police to know what kind of camera if it was dig camera, i was usinga film camera for my project then the police saying because of 9/11 and because the post office is near by the even wanted to know my social security num my prof name what class iam in so i told to visit my class he never came, haha.

]]> By: Earth Colony http://thomashawk.com/2008/12/port-of-long-beach-responds-to-incident.html/comment-page-1#comment-101535 Earth Colony Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:44:59 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=30#comment-101535 If you will just cooperate with the commands of the local storm troopers no one will be injured. This is for your protection and the security of the great federation of states. Please do not resist citizen. This is for your protection. If you will just cooperate with the commands of the local storm troopers no one will be injured. This is for your protection and the security of the great federation of states. Please do not resist citizen. This is for your protection.

]]> By: RickR http://thomashawk.com/2008/12/port-of-long-beach-responds-to-incident.html/comment-page-1#comment-94593 RickR Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:00:39 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=30#comment-94593 in the '60s i heard a segregationist use the same argument, "...for their safety...", when he tried to stop civil rights marchers from walking down an alabama highway. gee - it's so nice to be protected. in the ’60s i heard a segregationist use the same argument, “…for their safety…”, when he tried to stop civil rights marchers from walking down an alabama highway. gee – it’s so nice to be protected.

]]> By: Anonymous http://thomashawk.com/2008/12/port-of-long-beach-responds-to-incident.html/comment-page-1#comment-69961 Anonymous Wed, 15 Jul 2009 03:58:32 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=30#comment-69961 I don't get it? just get the permit. Also, LB harbor is privately owned by a company out of Dubai, meaning that our taxes don't pay for it. quite the contrary in fact, the harbor generates revenue; in other words, it pays taxes. Finally, until any of you have sat in on a homeland security intel briefing, then you have no right to criticize those officers for only doing their job. believe me, as an officer I would sleep much better knowing I've kept a possible target safe by just deterrence, than having possibly pissed off some wining bitches. just play the game and take your photos safely - its that simple. I don’t get it? just get the permit. Also, LB harbor is privately owned by a company out of Dubai, meaning that our taxes don’t pay for it. quite the contrary in fact, the harbor generates revenue; in other words, it pays taxes. Finally, until any of you have sat in on a homeland security intel briefing, then you have no right to criticize those officers for only doing their job. believe me, as an officer I would sleep much better knowing I’ve kept a possible target safe by just deterrence, than having possibly pissed off some wining bitches. just play the game and take your photos safely – its that simple.

]]> By: J.V. http://thomashawk.com/2008/12/port-of-long-beach-responds-to-incident.html/comment-page-1#comment-44999 J.V. Tue, 12 May 2009 20:24:31 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=30#comment-44999 Fist, thank you for bringing light to this issue. What is even more surprising to me is not just the harassing from the cops, but the comments from moronic Hillbillies that support this cain of behavior. Keep it up Thomas. Fist, thank you for bringing light to this issue. What is even more surprising to me is not just the harassing from the cops, but the comments from moronic Hillbillies that support this cain of behavior. Keep it up Thomas.

]]> By: Daniel Taylor http://thomashawk.com/2008/12/port-of-long-beach-responds-to-incident.html/comment-page-1#comment-30309 Daniel Taylor Sat, 21 Mar 2009 04:24:10 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=30#comment-30309 Am I to understand from this email that if I contact Art Wong, I'll get a run down on all the public spots I can explore and shoot from, and that I'll be left alone by police? Will he really make sure every cop and security guard knows to leave me alone? Or will he give me a letter that I can present to them upon request? I understand the principle of the matter, photographers shouldn't be harassed on public property. But if my tax dollars are paying Art Wong to give me the low down on all the spots I can shoot from AND arrange it so that I will be completely free from harassment, I might just take him up on that. Am I to understand from this email that if I contact Art Wong, I’ll get a run down on all the public spots I can explore and shoot from, and that I’ll be left alone by police?

Will he really make sure every cop and security guard knows to leave me alone? Or will he give me a letter that I can present to them upon request?

I understand the principle of the matter, photographers shouldn’t be harassed on public property. But if my tax dollars are paying Art Wong to give me the low down on all the spots I can shoot from AND arrange it so that I will be completely free from harassment, I might just take him up on that.

]]> By: Jack http://thomashawk.com/2008/12/port-of-long-beach-responds-to-incident.html/comment-page-1#comment-28064 Jack Sat, 07 Mar 2009 19:24:15 +0000 http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=30#comment-28064 YOU GUYS ARE ALL IDIOTS! YOU GUYS ARE ALL IDIOTS!

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