Flickr = Censorship

Flickr = Censorship

[I am CEO of Zooomr]

I’m pretty pissed right now. Two days ago I blogged about an incident involving Rebekka Guðleifsdóttira. Rebekka is one of the most popular photographers on Flickr and definitely someone that those of us who have been around for a while would consider “Old Skool” (RIP).

Rebekka is a single mom and art student living in Iceland. She’s an artist and a talented one at that. She does amazing things with her camera. Recently she discovered that a gallery Only-Dreemin had been ripping her off. They’d sold thousands of dollars worth of her images and when she caught them and tried to make them give her the money that they stole from her they refused. So Rebekka did what anyone with a following on the internet might do and she posted about her frustration and plight on her flickrstream. And her story resonated loudly with the flickr community. Her story made the front page of digg and by days end she had 100,000 views on this particular photograph with hundreds of supportive comments.

So what’s got me pissed today? What’s got me pissed today is that according to Rebekka, Flickr has removed her image from their site. That’s right. Not only did they remove and kill her image and her *non-violent* words of protest, but they censored each and every one of us who commented on her photograph, who offered support to Rebekka, who shared in her frustration by wiping every single one of our comments off the face of the internet forever.

According to Rebekka, Flickr’s explanation?

“Flickr is not a venue for to you harass, abuse, impersonate, or intimidate others. If we receive a valid complaint about your conduct, we will send you a warning or
terminate your account.”

WTF?!?

So a flickr photographer gets ripped off. Dares to complain about it. Has an outpouring of support on the internet over it and Yahoo decides censorship is the way to handle this? This is the worst I’ve seen from Yahoo yet.

You know when Yahoo decided to without my permission delete a photograph I’d posted of Michael Crook and along with it a long dialog of community conversation I was pissed. But I’m even more pissed now.

Yahoo should not get away with this. This type of censorship is not right. They should apologize to Rebekka and reinstate this photo that they deleted and all it’s comments. These comments that Flickr don’t belong to them. They belong to all of us. All of us, the community that makes Flickr even possible. Remember the community Yahoo? Remember the community that Flickr used to stand behind.

I remember back when I posted a much earlier photo on Flickr when I’d almost been ripped off by PriceRitePhoto. I used this photo to put pressure on PriceRitePhoto which eventually put them and their sleazy business practices out of business. You know what? Back when this happened I actually got a personal email supportive of my plight from someone on Flickr staff. That was then though. This is now.

Rebekka, I’m sorry that Yahoo has decided to censor you. Consider this post and the posting I’ll make at Flickr a protest in support of you and your right to share your frustrations in your photostream and in your art.

This really sucks, and know that even without Flickr, the attention to this matter will not die down. I’m not sure how this company got to Flickr and Yahoo, but this will not make their problem of cheating you go away. Because when people censor it only makes the censored story ring louder in the end.

Rebekka, you had my support when you originally posted about your plight and you have it now.

And to Yahoo and Flickr? Shame on you.

Digg this here.

Update: Flickr has formally responded on this matter and a debate regarding this “mistake” is going on over here in this Flickr Help Forum. Feel free to chime in if you’d like.

Update #2: More news on this now from the BBC.

Update #3: More here.

  • August 7, 2009 at 12:46 am Thomas Hawk
    Based on the above email it would seem that Flores' account was terminated because Flickr alleged that he was hosting photographs that were not his. But Flores tells a different story. When I contacted Flores about this issue he said, "I have been a professional freelance photographer for the last 10 years. All the content/images that were posted in my Flickr photostream were all my work, creation and intellectual property." Furthermore all photos in Flores' stream were watermarked with his own personal copyright information. It is hard for me to see how Flickr could make a mistake of deciding that these photos did not belong to Flores.
  • August 7, 2009 at 2:22 am ChiliMac
    Not cool. Not cool at all!
  • August 7, 2009 at 3:57 am Francisco
    Yahoo should be more careful. they're begging for users to export all their pics somewhere else. xC
  • August 7, 2009 at 4:00 am Francisco
    In response to adoniel's thread on the forum: "Kevin (staff) says: Hello- this is best handled via Help by Email, not the Help Forum. Thanks." DUH-UH!! actually they never answered his emails. After a while their robots will start ignoring you too. ;)
  • August 7, 2009 at 7:23 am Nils Sandin
    I still find it unbelievable in this day and age of blogging, Twitter, FF and instant communication (and distribution) of such poor customer service stories that Flickr/Yahoo continue to hide behind their wall of silence. Any other "brick & mortar" store would have long closed for business (or been sued) with such behavior. At least in a store you can physically speak to someone, and not have these e-mail bots or anonymous CS censors.
  • August 7, 2009 at 7:39 am travispuk
    This is just ridiculous. Flickr is seriously sucking and is currently making ANY other service look better. ;)
  • August 7, 2009 at 7:40 am Rutger Blom
    Calm down, Andrew. Your service Zooomr isn't exactly the shiniest around. My advice is to put some more time on getting Zooomr back on the road and stop bitching about Flickr all the time. It's getting boring.
  • August 7, 2009 at 7:54 am travispuk
    @Rutger, do you actually think that this post has anything to do with Zooomr?
  • August 7, 2009 at 7:59 am Rutger Blom
    @Travis, no. did I indicate that? I'm just tired of Andrew picking on Flickr all the time. It's like he is obsessed with it. I think he is out of line especially as he is the CEO of Zooomr.
  • August 7, 2009 at 8:03 am travispuk
    @Rutger, Censorship and photographer's rights, generally, is an obsession with TH as far as I have seen. I have no problem with him paying out on flickr for this type of activity. It happens too often and something needs to be done about it. As for being CEO of Zooomr, I cannot recall the last time TH actually referred to Zooomr since 'the incident' and when Zooomr moved to Japan.
  • August 7, 2009 at 8:08 am Rutger Blom
    @Travis, what do you really know about those cases where Flickr accounts were being closed more than Andrew's assumptions? Don't you even for a minute consider the possibility that something more is involved?
  • August 7, 2009 at 8:11 am Rutger Blom
    ...and this is why I still associate Andrew with Zooomr: http://www.zooomr.com/about/
  • August 7, 2009 at 8:13 am travispuk
    @Rutger, I absolutely think about it. I have no problem with flickr enforcing their rules as per their T&Cs and in the cases where it is justified, fully support them... seriously. However from what I have seen, and guaranteed I have not seen it all, the flickr enforcers have done this too many times where it has been in error and their procedures and application functions makes it irreversible. There is practically no recourse and when they do make a mistake they can and do nothing about it other than Heather spitting out a 'we were wrong' post. They need to park accounts in an area that allows proper dispute resolution.
  • August 7, 2009 at 8:15 am travispuk
    Re the Zooomr about profile, check out the last time that was updated. If TH is still involved in a capacity there, fine. However I am really talking about the last time TH actually pushed Zooomr. I know that pre 'the incident' and the move he was all about flickr sucks, move to Zooomr, but I haven't seen that type of post in a very long time.
  • August 7, 2009 at 12:52 pm Thomas Hawk
    Rutger, re: Zooomr, it's sort of on autopilot at this point unfortunately. I had much larger plans for it originally as a way for photographers to enter into the stock photography market where the photographers actually got the bulk of the money but Kristopher and I had a difference of opinion about the future direction, he moved to Japan and I haven't talked to him in months. I sent him an email to check in with him personally and Zooomr earlier this week but it's not something really being actively marketed at this point. I've put hundreds of hours of time and energy and work into Flickr over the past 5 years from a users perspective. It terrifies me that all of that could just be gone in a whim, permanently and forever. That Flickr won't address this fear and instead provide a sane and responsible approach to user account deletion pisses me off. I'll probably continue to highlight these cases every opportunity I get until they do address it. It concerns a lot more than just me. If you don't like as they say you are...
  • August 7, 2009 at 12:53 pm k00pa
    Not good at all!
  • August 7, 2009 at 1:05 pm Thomas Hawk
    By the way, I do think that one thing that the whole Zooomr experience has taught me is how absolute a hold and a monopoly Flickr has on the photosharing community as a whole. For better or for worse, Flickr is it. Because they could care less if they lose customers or not at this point they treat them very poorly. From censorship to deleting accounts to not responding to email requests, etc. they just don't give a damn. Frequently Flickr staff talks down to their users referring to them in child like terms and saying things like they need a "time out." It should be their privilege to host our photos, not our privilege to be able to use the service. They are the curator of a truly important and very very significant cultural archive. And owe those who support their site with their art and energy and emotion much more than they give them.
  • August 7, 2009 at 1:05 pm gwendolen
    Is there any group on Flickr where this is discussed yet?
  • August 7, 2009 at 1:08 pm Thomas Hawk
    There are lots of protests groups on Flickr gwendolen. They usually just end up mocked by flickr. We usually talk about these cases in DMU every time they come up. Here's the thread on this case there this time: http://www.flickr.com/groups/dmu2/discuss/72157621965201934/
  • August 7, 2009 at 1:11 pm gwendolen
    Thanks for the link Thomas.
  • August 7, 2009 at 1:16 pm Thomas Hawk
    Many of these cases also frequently show up in the Flickr Help forum as well, but Flickr usually locks the threads there as fast as they can in order to try and silence those who might be critical. In this case Flores posted in the Help Forum twice and both of the threads he posted in were locked by Flickr Staff.
  • August 7, 2009 at 1:17 pm Rutger Blom
    I'm physically very far away from Flickr and their staff so I can't say anything about them, but the network in general feels very static and I certainly do not feel that warm welcome family feeling at Flickr as I feel on SmugMug. Flickr feels like an authority you shouldn't mess with. That said, it is the Flickr members that make the service. The social part of Flickr is still unique and can't be found anywhere else.
  • August 7, 2009 at 4:17 pm Rutger Blom
    Troll?? Please go and hide somewhere. I respond in whatever way I want to whatever I want. If that is too upsetting for you block me, "dude". >
  • August 7, 2009 at 4:27 pm travispuk
    @Rutger, when I first read your original post mentioning TH's real name etc, I had the same thoughts as Sean that you were trolling. The fact that you stuck around to discuss changed my mind though, now I just think you have a different point of view. ;)
  • August 7, 2009 at 4:31 pm Rutger Blom
    Not trolls but people with own opinions that have the guts to express how they feel and think write like that. That obviously upsets you and some others.
  • August 7, 2009 at 4:48 pm Rutger Blom
    I'm no troll and I'm not trolling. I like and respect the author of this topic. Been following him on many networks for a long time and I'm very impressed by his photography. I got upset when I saw this topic this morning and reacted. That's all.
  • August 7, 2009 at 5:11 pm Peter
    Who is Andrew?
  • August 7, 2009 at 5:21 pm James Myatt
    Peter, I'm pretty sure it's this guy: http://bit.ly/h9D6

107 Comments

  1. adam-dexter says:

    Flickr has done it again-

    I was just shafted by Flickr a few weeks ago. They decided to delete my PAID Pro Flickr account without warning or telling me. Now, for the last two and a half weeks, I’ve been trying to find out why and they have given me the hardest time I’ve ever had with any customer service (not even Best Buy was this bad)- They still have not told me exactly WHY my account was deleted. I apparently violated some TOS, but they won’t tell me which one or how. My account wasn’t even a year old. I wasted $24.95 on this BS. Check out my full story and show your support in by commenting here: http://adamdexter.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/my-flickr-account-deactivated/

    Also, I dugg this story- digg mine here:
    http://digg.com/tech_news/Flickr_Yahoo_Evil

  2. [...] Flickr’s user base of photographers is notoriously sensitive to any hint of censorship, so the company would be well-advised to come up with a coherent [...]

  3. [...] Flickr’s user base of photographers is notoriously sensitive to any hint of censorship, so the company would be well-advised to come up with a coherent [...]

  4. [...] Flickr’s user base of photographers is notoriously sensitive to any hint of censorship, so the company would be well-advised to come up with a coherent [...]

  5. [...] Flickr deletes photo from prolific Flickr Photographer [...]

  6. I got booted out of Flickr for the same reason. A local newspaper the Deccan Herald used one of my photos without permission. I posted about it on Flickr and within 12 hours my account was removed. No notice from Flickr, no indication as to why the account was deleted, which was the offending photograph or which clause of the TOS was violated (in their opinion).

    Devesh
    bangalore aviation

  7. Thanks very much for taking your time to create this very useful infos

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