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	<title>Comments on: Let&#8217;s Talk About Race and Photography</title>
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		<title>By: Disoriented</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2007/04/lets-talk-about-race-and-photography.html/comment-page-1#comment-8334</link>
		<dc:creator>Disoriented</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 10:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=1245#comment-8334</guid>
		<description>Thomas, &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I wish I had a chance to respond to this when it was first posted, but work just keeps getting in the way.  But I do frequent your blog and I love your work!  I was born and raised in San Francisco, moved to Los Angeles for graduate school, and am currently a resident in Arlington, VA.  Your photos of &quot;The City,&quot; your analysis and commentary, and work keeps me in touch with my home and roots.  I am a graduate student with hopes of being a professor, but I am also a photographer -- not a pro, but a longtime enthusiast of the medium and what it can do.  My primary work and research is on questions of law and culture, but I also have secondary interests in representation, visual culture, and race, be it in film, art, or ... photography!  So you can imagine at my surprise when the intersection of all these interests became evident in your post about race and photography.  Anyways I thought I&#039;d share a few comments and contextualize the your topic in a different way so here it is ... better late than never.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;1) You&#039;re not a racist.  I don&#039;t think you don&#039;t need me to tell you that, but whenever subjects regarding race, it inevitably comes up.  The term has very specific definitions both legally and politically and it centers around intent.  Simply put, if you&#039;re motivated to act on the basis of a bias, real or perceived, then it&#039;s racism.  It&#039;s &quot;subconscious racism&quot; that generates a lot of problems that many of the posters are referring to.  I never liked psychoanalysis in graduate school, and I still find &quot;subconscious racism&quot; problematic.  Anyways ...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;2) It&#039;s not about you per se, but the camera and the medium itself.  Your experience with photographing in a black neighborhood is revealing on this point.  One way to think about that moment is that the camera is not simply an artistic tool, but it can be a form of surveillance, not unlike videos, phone cameras, etc.  It&#039;s not about what &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; are taking with your camera, but what is revealed about &lt;i&gt;them to others&lt;/i&gt; with your camera.  In the context of, for example, an impoverished, minority neighborhood, the camera is one of many forms of surveillance that often is intimately linked with the police.  This leads to my last point ...&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;3) Photography is a politically powerful medium.  It&#039;s not solely about the art, but it&#039;s inherent.  I remember reading your posts regarding &quot;public spaces&quot; and private security in which you were harassed and chased out.  Like your experience in the black neighborhood, it&#039;s not you, but what is revealed about them through your photographs.  For a public space, like a Muni bus station in downtown SF for instance, it could reveal a liability in public services, unaddressed safety hazards, etc. -- something that people in charge don&#039;t want to admit but can be powerfully revealed in your photographs.  Photographs work like evidence.  However, unlike a public space, the camera in a, for example, a poor black neighborhood, is different because it is so often linked with forms of policing.  In this sense, and here is the awful irony that is revealed in your work ... what is regarded as &quot;public&quot; is increasingly &quot;privatized,&quot; and what ought to be private (like a home and  neighborhood), is increasingly &quot;public&quot; and open to scrutiny.  This is the &quot;flip-side&quot; of your work on the the politics of photographing &quot;public spaces,&quot; but I hope you can understand that when race is involved, the medium of photography, the space itself, and the politics change as a result.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I do apologize for the lengthy post and its tardiness, but I hope this adds a different light to your work and to the discussion on the post.  I also would love permission to use your thread and the subsequent discussion as research materials in the future.  It&#039;s a great post and something that is often not acknowledged enough or with the care and thoughtfulness that you wrote.  Thanks!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Max</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas, </p>
<p>I wish I had a chance to respond to this when it was first posted, but work just keeps getting in the way.  But I do frequent your blog and I love your work!  I was born and raised in San Francisco, moved to Los Angeles for graduate school, and am currently a resident in Arlington, VA.  Your photos of &#8220;The City,&#8221; your analysis and commentary, and work keeps me in touch with my home and roots.  I am a graduate student with hopes of being a professor, but I am also a photographer &#8212; not a pro, but a longtime enthusiast of the medium and what it can do.  My primary work and research is on questions of law and culture, but I also have secondary interests in representation, visual culture, and race, be it in film, art, or &#8230; photography!  So you can imagine at my surprise when the intersection of all these interests became evident in your post about race and photography.  Anyways I thought I&#8217;d share a few comments and contextualize the your topic in a different way so here it is &#8230; better late than never.  </p>
<p>1) You&#8217;re not a racist.  I don&#8217;t think you don&#8217;t need me to tell you that, but whenever subjects regarding race, it inevitably comes up.  The term has very specific definitions both legally and politically and it centers around intent.  Simply put, if you&#8217;re motivated to act on the basis of a bias, real or perceived, then it&#8217;s racism.  It&#8217;s &#8220;subconscious racism&#8221; that generates a lot of problems that many of the posters are referring to.  I never liked psychoanalysis in graduate school, and I still find &#8220;subconscious racism&#8221; problematic.  Anyways &#8230;</p>
<p>2) It&#8217;s not about you per se, but the camera and the medium itself.  Your experience with photographing in a black neighborhood is revealing on this point.  One way to think about that moment is that the camera is not simply an artistic tool, but it can be a form of surveillance, not unlike videos, phone cameras, etc.  It&#8217;s not about what <i>you</i> are taking with your camera, but what is revealed about <i>them to others</i> with your camera.  In the context of, for example, an impoverished, minority neighborhood, the camera is one of many forms of surveillance that often is intimately linked with the police.  This leads to my last point &#8230;</p>
<p>3) Photography is a politically powerful medium.  It&#8217;s not solely about the art, but it&#8217;s inherent.  I remember reading your posts regarding &#8220;public spaces&#8221; and private security in which you were harassed and chased out.  Like your experience in the black neighborhood, it&#8217;s not you, but what is revealed about them through your photographs.  For a public space, like a Muni bus station in downtown SF for instance, it could reveal a liability in public services, unaddressed safety hazards, etc. &#8212; something that people in charge don&#8217;t want to admit but can be powerfully revealed in your photographs.  Photographs work like evidence.  However, unlike a public space, the camera in a, for example, a poor black neighborhood, is different because it is so often linked with forms of policing.  In this sense, and here is the awful irony that is revealed in your work &#8230; what is regarded as &#8220;public&#8221; is increasingly &#8220;privatized,&#8221; and what ought to be private (like a home and  neighborhood), is increasingly &#8220;public&#8221; and open to scrutiny.  This is the &#8220;flip-side&#8221; of your work on the the politics of photographing &#8220;public spaces,&#8221; but I hope you can understand that when race is involved, the medium of photography, the space itself, and the politics change as a result.</p>
<p>I do apologize for the lengthy post and its tardiness, but I hope this adds a different light to your work and to the discussion on the post.  I also would love permission to use your thread and the subsequent discussion as research materials in the future.  It&#8217;s a great post and something that is often not acknowledged enough or with the care and thoughtfulness that you wrote.  Thanks!</p>
<p>Max</p>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2007/04/lets-talk-about-race-and-photography.html/comment-page-1#comment-8335</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Apr 2007 15:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=1245#comment-8335</guid>
		<description>I wonder if you&#039;ve thought about the two conflicts you&#039;ve had recently - choosing to walk away from the people in this story vs. standing up to the cigar store owner - and how the situations were different or similar; that&#039;d be an interesting conversation to have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if you&#8217;ve thought about the two conflicts you&#8217;ve had recently &#8211; choosing to walk away from the people in this story vs. standing up to the cigar store owner &#8211; and how the situations were different or similar; that&#8217;d be an interesting conversation to have.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2007/04/lets-talk-about-race-and-photography.html/comment-page-1#comment-8336</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 23:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=1245#comment-8336</guid>
		<description>Thomas did a very good thing .Thomas hawk was heard by me on EbonyFriends.com. I am sure I will appreciate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thomas did a very good thing .Thomas hawk was heard by me on EbonyFriends.com. I am sure I will appreciate.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2007/04/lets-talk-about-race-and-photography.html/comment-page-1#comment-8337</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 13:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=1245#comment-8337</guid>
		<description>P.S. And, thanks for adding me &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.flickr.com/photos/michelles_pics/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;as a contact&lt;/a&gt; today! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. And, thanks for adding me <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/michelles_pics/" rel="nofollow">as a contact</a> today! <img src='http://thomashawk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2007/04/lets-talk-about-race-and-photography.html/comment-page-1#comment-8338</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 09:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=1245#comment-8338</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s pretty racist of you to say that you would only see people of color when you go out shooting &quot;in the streets&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s pretty racist of you to say that you would only see people of color when you go out shooting &#8220;in the streets&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2007/04/lets-talk-about-race-and-photography.html/comment-page-1#comment-8339</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Apr 2007 09:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=1245#comment-8339</guid>
		<description>You ain&#039;t racist, just White. White people don&#039;t like to hang out with other races much so it&#039;s only natural that most of your photos depict the people you see and hang out with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You ain&#8217;t racist, just White. White people don&#8217;t like to hang out with other races much so it&#8217;s only natural that most of your photos depict the people you see and hang out with.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2007/04/lets-talk-about-race-and-photography.html/comment-page-1#comment-8340</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 23:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=1245#comment-8340</guid>
		<description>Glad to see you address this topic so directly and with a limited amount of self-consciousness.  I think you make a lot of reasonable points that would often be edited out or changed for fear of readers finding a way to draw the worst conclusions from your statements.  There are many people who don&#039;t look to do this, but with race being such a sensitive topic, it seems much more prone than most for people too take reasonable words and read racism into them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to see you address this topic so directly and with a limited amount of self-consciousness.  I think you make a lot of reasonable points that would often be edited out or changed for fear of readers finding a way to draw the worst conclusions from your statements.  There are many people who don&#8217;t look to do this, but with race being such a sensitive topic, it seems much more prone than most for people too take reasonable words and read racism into them.</p>
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		<title>By: Marta Azevedo</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2007/04/lets-talk-about-race-and-photography.html/comment-page-1#comment-8341</link>
		<dc:creator>Marta Azevedo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 20:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=1245#comment-8341</guid>
		<description>People always say to me that I should have more white people in my website. Go figure&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;www.martaphoto.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People always say to me that I should have more white people in my website. Go figure</p>
<p><a href="http://www.martaphoto.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.martaphoto.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2007/04/lets-talk-about-race-and-photography.html/comment-page-1#comment-8342</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 18:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=1245#comment-8342</guid>
		<description>Hi Thomas, I have been reading your blog for a while via rss. I love your pictures &amp; also your insightful thoughts on what you do. As a black woman, I was affected and touched by your post.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The very fact that you&#039;re openly talking about this says that you&#039;re not a racist. If we&#039;re to heal our society from its terrible history, these kinds of discussions and questions must be brought to the forefront. I have no problem discussing race with my white friends--most of them are genuine, like you, and honest. It&#039;s great--although many in the black community still see this as &quot;fraternizing with the enemy.&quot; &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I agree with your idea of the subconscious--not a subconscious racism, but maybe a desire to photograph things/people that move you, and naturally those would be things/people that seem or remind you of yourself. Throw in societal biases and you have a pretty good recipe there. Or maybe it&#039;s just, as the other poster said, lack of opportunity.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I noticed that your experience of blacks is based on some limited examples (ie., camera theft). Any type of crime is traumatic, but if you&#039;d been mugged by a white guy you probably wouldn&#039;t be judging white people by that incident. It would just be one messed-up guy that stole your camera. Why? Because your experiences with whites aren&#039;t that limited. So if you expand your experience, you&#039;ll have more background and more positive feelings about the &quot;other.&quot; Both whites AND blacks have to work on this one. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You don&#039;t have to limit your photography of blacks to &quot;black&quot; areas--only some of us live there anyway. The rest of us are in the suburbs or other urban areas, and not segregated. The thing that struck me about your photos was that they are beautiful, and that the blacks in them were depicted as &quot;people,&quot; not, &quot;This is a black guy I met...&quot; or whatever. Continue doing that, because yes we&#039;re black but more importantly, we are &lt;i&gt;people&lt;/i&gt; and we are everywhere--eating, shopping, living... just like anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Thomas, I have been reading your blog for a while via rss. I love your pictures &#038; also your insightful thoughts on what you do. As a black woman, I was affected and touched by your post.</p>
<p>The very fact that you&#8217;re openly talking about this says that you&#8217;re not a racist. If we&#8217;re to heal our society from its terrible history, these kinds of discussions and questions must be brought to the forefront. I have no problem discussing race with my white friends&#8211;most of them are genuine, like you, and honest. It&#8217;s great&#8211;although many in the black community still see this as &#8220;fraternizing with the enemy.&#8221; </p>
<p>I agree with your idea of the subconscious&#8211;not a subconscious racism, but maybe a desire to photograph things/people that move you, and naturally those would be things/people that seem or remind you of yourself. Throw in societal biases and you have a pretty good recipe there. Or maybe it&#8217;s just, as the other poster said, lack of opportunity.</p>
<p>I noticed that your experience of blacks is based on some limited examples (ie., camera theft). Any type of crime is traumatic, but if you&#8217;d been mugged by a white guy you probably wouldn&#8217;t be judging white people by that incident. It would just be one messed-up guy that stole your camera. Why? Because your experiences with whites aren&#8217;t that limited. So if you expand your experience, you&#8217;ll have more background and more positive feelings about the &#8220;other.&#8221; Both whites AND blacks have to work on this one. </p>
<p>You don&#8217;t have to limit your photography of blacks to &#8220;black&#8221; areas&#8211;only some of us live there anyway. The rest of us are in the suburbs or other urban areas, and not segregated. The thing that struck me about your photos was that they are beautiful, and that the blacks in them were depicted as &#8220;people,&#8221; not, &#8220;This is a black guy I met&#8230;&#8221; or whatever. Continue doing that, because yes we&#8217;re black but more importantly, we are <i>people</i> and we are everywhere&#8211;eating, shopping, living&#8230; just like anyone.</p>
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		<title>By: the maestro</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2007/04/lets-talk-about-race-and-photography.html/comment-page-1#comment-8343</link>
		<dc:creator>the maestro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Apr 2007 17:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=1245#comment-8343</guid>
		<description>mr. hawks; race should be talked about and talked about a lot more. do you think it is a racist statement to say, &quot;in milwaukee&#039;s central city, one of the most poverty sticken segregated cities there are places where i, white, would never go&#039; is racist/ or, &quot;i am always aware of my surroundings&quot;&lt;br /&gt; or &quot; i am sure that&#039;s a crew note the clues, ect.&quot;? anyone saying this is racist has never been in milwaukee&#039;s central city because the fact is your chances of being jacked or worse are posible. this is the reality. does this mean i don&#039;t go to these neighborhooods. no. i have hung out and worked there for over 15 years and go most anywhere i want to during the day and when i am with a black friend almost anywhere at night. the point is there are some dangerous people- but on the other hand note all the store front churches and i have met too many really great black people not to know that &quot;black IS beautifull&quot; and also there are some that do not have a reason to value their life so why would they value yours? and remember; a camera can always seem intimidating to any one- especially someone with a bad attitude.  neutron</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mr. hawks; race should be talked about and talked about a lot more. do you think it is a racist statement to say, &#8220;in milwaukee&#8217;s central city, one of the most poverty sticken segregated cities there are places where i, white, would never go&#8217; is racist/ or, &#8220;i am always aware of my surroundings&#8221;<br /> or &#8221; i am sure that&#8217;s a crew note the clues, ect.&#8221;? anyone saying this is racist has never been in milwaukee&#8217;s central city because the fact is your chances of being jacked or worse are posible. this is the reality. does this mean i don&#8217;t go to these neighborhooods. no. i have hung out and worked there for over 15 years and go most anywhere i want to during the day and when i am with a black friend almost anywhere at night. the point is there are some dangerous people- but on the other hand note all the store front churches and i have met too many really great black people not to know that &#8220;black IS beautifull&#8221; and also there are some that do not have a reason to value their life so why would they value yours? and remember; a camera can always seem intimidating to any one- especially someone with a bad attitude.  neutron</p>
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