Anto Kamarian of Cigars by Chivas in Pasadena California, Yeah You, Photography is Still Not a Crime
Hey Anto Kamarian of Cigars by Chivas in Pasadena California — Asshole, Photography is Not a Crime Hosted on ZooomrAnto Kamarian
Cigars by Chivas
58 S De Lacey Ave
Pasadena, CA 91105
(626) 395-7475
I spent the weekend down in Los Angeles, most of it shooting neon signs at night. One of the high density spots for neon right now is in Pasadena’s Old Town.
Anto Kamarian, owner of Cigars by Chivas in Old Town Pasadena (Asshole): Are you a reporter?
Me: No.
Kamarian: Well then you’re not allowed to take pictures of my store.
Me: Ummm… actually I can take photos of whatever I want from a public street.
Kamarian: I’m going to have to ask you to stop taking pictures of my store.
Me: And I’m going to keep taking pictures of your store.
Kamarian: You want me to call the cops and have you arrested.
Me: Yes, please, that would be great.
Asshole: (storms back into the store)
Kamarian: (returns) I thought I told you to stop taking pictures of my store.
Me: And I thought you were going to call the police. What happened? Come on now, what happened with that? I thought you were calling the police. Now go back inside and call the police please.
Kamarian: Oh yeah? I’ve got a cop right in the store now.
Me: Great, bring him out.
Kamarian: (returns with a Pasadena police officer): Now stop taking pictures of my store.
Me: (snaps photo of asshole, see photo above)
Kamarian: (Makes a jump at me trying to grab my camera from my hands, hits my arm but I pull the camera out of his reach. Steps on my foot). You can’t take a picture of me!
Me: Actually I can, you’re on a public street. And if you touch me again I’ll have you arrested for assault.
Cop: Hey Anto, he can take photos outside, he just can’t take them inside your store.
Kamarian: You, you, you, can’t take my photo or photos of my store.
Me: Umm, again, actually I can, this is America.
Cop: He can’t take them inside, he can take them out here.
Kamarian: You’d better not take photos from out here inside my store.
Me: I’ll take pictures of whatever I want from the street. This is America. You should learn the laws of America.
Kamarian: You can’t take my picture.
Me: Actually I can. This is America.
(crowd gathering at this point)
Kamarian: I know this is America I live here.
Me: Why don’t you go back in your store (cop is trying to talk some sense into the asshole at this point and pulling him back into the store).
Fade out. Scene ends. I finish up shooting this asshole’s store and the neon and head off to the next subject.
Some people ask me why I make such a big deal about a photographer’s right to shoot from public streets. Because I shoot nearly every day I run into asshole’s like this Chivas Cigar guy all the time. They are not used to confrontation. They are used to bullying photographers and having phtographers wimp out and say, “ok, I won’t shoot your store, sorry, Sir.” That’s BS. It’s your street, it’s my street. It belongs to all of us.
In the case above all I was trying to do was to capture the neon from the street. I collect neon. It’s part of a project I’m working on right now. While I’m sure both Anto and I were shook up after this altercation, hopefully this altercation will prevent him from telling the next photographer that they’re not allowed to take photos of his store. At least he was embarrassed in front of this cop and his customers having to back down after taking a hard stance.
Incidents like this happen to me at least once a month. I only publish the most egregious. The good news is that in this case the cop that was called into the situation had a clear and proper understanding of a photographer’s rights and even though he was on a friendly first name basis with the cigar dude, he calmed him down and wisked him back into his store.
What also makes this most recent incident especially unfortunate is that the owner of the cigar store Anto Kamarian is actually a former attorney. You’d figure someone with a sense for the law would have more respect for the law than to try and create his own laws with regards to photographers. (Isn’t Google great, you can do all kinds of research Anto)
It’s only by the uncomfortableness of incidents like the above that the message gets out that we have every right to shoot the streets and that nobody owns the air and images of the public space in America.
Normally if someone doesn’t want me to photograph their photo I say no problem and never publish any images I take. It’s the respectful thing to do. But assholes like Anto Kamarian deserve what they get. So his photo stays. Hopefully he apologizes for his bad behavior and hopefully he’s not such a bully to the next photographer who happens upon his store.
Update: to see all my shots of neon that I took in Pasadena on this shoot you can click through here.
What a complete asshole this guy is - I’d send the story to one of the more sleazy rags for publication, just to piss him off.
Difference between US and Australia - here we can take photos in “public places”, but have no right to take photos of any person, and certainly can’t publish them (even on a blog) unless they sign a release.
Way to go! And now you have him owned by SEO too !
Although you’re technically correct about the laws that protect your rights I’ll respectfully disagree with your tactics. You should have taken the high road and moved on. Sadly you didn’t do anything but piss the guy off, not educate him and likely he’ll flip out on some other poor soul in another location not just in front of his store. It would have been pretty easy for you to move to another location to get a photo of neon.
Personally I wouldn’t be too proud of the tactic taken. Granted I wasn’t there and I might have even been prone to do the same thing, but it doesn’t mean it was the right thing to do. Mutual respect is as much a part of a photographers skill set as technical or post-processing skills.
Seems like you were looking for a conflict (that would make a good blog posting?) instead of taking the high-road…
I understand your frustration because this happens to me, too. I’ve had the police called on me for photographing a bridge! So I applaud you for knowing and standing up for your rights, but, I wish you’d remove the word “asshole” from your description of him. He may very well be just that, but name calling makes you come across poorly.
Hi Thomas,
I read your blog quite often, but never post any comments. However, I feel like I want to speak out here.
Like you said, you were legally within your rights to take pictures of the man and his store.
However, if an individual (not a company, which would be different) asks you not to take a picture of them or their property because the obviously don’t feel comfortable with it (for whatever reason), even though you’re within your rights to do so, sometimes, it’s polite to stop, just because they ask.
I know I wouldn’t want some random person taking pictures of me or my property. He may covert his privacy. Sure, he’s on a public street, but there’s nothing he can do about that.
Obvioulsy the man was upset that he was having his picture taken. He didn’t want you to. Doesn’t mean that you have to just because you can. When you live in a community, goodwill can go a long way.
Perhaps if you wanted to get your point across, you could have put your camera down, exaplained to the guy that actually, you’re legally allowed to take pictures of whatever you want, but you respect his wishes to not take pictures of his store.
You don’t have to go around pissing everyone off just to make a point. You’re not the only person that lives and works in your community.
Just my 2c.
Jim, why should he? I am fed up myself of bullies and aggressive fools who think they can get away with anything.
If I was faced with the same situation, I would have done the same and will do the same if it does happen.
As to anonymous, it’s good for this kind of thing to be brought to people’s attention and I somehow doubt Thomas needs to much help with his readership
Thomas - you are my hero.
I disagree with with the commenters who say you handled this poorly. I’d say you handled it brilliantly. From your account, the guy came out to bully you, and only then did you make your stance. I’m sure if he had come out and asked nicely or given you a good reason, nothing would have come of this. Instead, he decided to have attitude - and you reacted apporpriately.
What I don’t understand is why he was against photos being taken of his sign in the first place. I’m not a store owner, but it seems to be that free publicity would be a good thing.
If I’m ever in L.A. I’ll make it a point to photograph his sign and tell him Thomas sent me.
I also disagree with the comments suggesting you’ve done this guy wrong, Thomas. The store owner is the one who started this out on a confrontational foot, and he escalated it. There’s no need to for you to bow to such pressure, and I think you by standing your ground you did all of us a favor.
Although you’re technically correct about the laws that protect your rights I’ll respectfully disagree with your tactics. You should have taken the high road and moved on. Sadly you didn’t do anything but piss the guy off, not educate him and likely he’ll flip out on some other poor soul in another location not just in front of his store.
Jim, by moving along I would have only been reinforcing this bad behavior. By creating a negative reinforcement with his abusiveness I’ve taught this bully a lesson. Maybe he flip off on someone else but maybe someone else will take the same tactic and eventually he’ll get the message. I don’t believe that one ought to give up their rights in the interest of getting along.
Mutual respect is key. And my responses in these situations are most definitely measured responses.
Seems like you were looking for a conflict (that would make a good blog posting?) instead of taking the high-road…
Anonymous, my interest in documenting abusive behavior on those that would not respect photographers rights has nothing to do with trying to drive traffic to my blog. “You’re only saying this, that, etc. in order to get hits on your blog, readers to your paper, people to watch your news program, etc.” Is in my mind one of the weakest arguments. Those that know me and read my blog know that I’ve had a long standing conviction with regards to photographer’s rights. I document the worst altercations and will continue to do so in the hope that the world that I shoot in becomes a more educated place.
I wish you’d remove the word “asshole” from your description of him.
Lane, I might do this if the guy apologized and was sincere. But as it stands now it stays. The guy tried to express his personal power over me to the point of physically touching me. He crossed a line and deserves what he gets. By the way, asshole isn’t always such a bad word. I’m being an asshole back to this guy too
I’m now expressing my own personal power (and probably greater than his) over him.
I’m doing something that he does not want done. I’ve researched him with easy public tools, have associated his name with his photograph and now Google will always remember him as that asshole at the cigar store. Such is the power of SEO for bloggers at the present time.
However, if an individual (not a company, which would be different) asks you not to take a picture of them or their property because the obviously don’t feel comfortable with it (for whatever reason), even though you’re within your rights to do so, sometimes, it’s polite to stop, just because they ask.
Someone in New York
I generally do respect someone’s desire not to have their image collected by my camera when ask. I have literally dozens of unpublished photographs of people who have asked me not to shoot them. It happens all the time shooting street.
Generally, but not always, I comply. It seems like the nice thing to do.
But on the other hand when someone tries to escalate things then in my mind they lose this.
I shoot every day. I’m trying to do something extraordinary. I’m trying to document my world with 500,000 finished photographs before I die. I run into altercations all the time in this pursuit. The night before this incident I had three people confront me at a carnival over my shooting. Do you know what happened there? In all three cases it was worked out amicably. Two of the three I gave my business card and one actually let me take her portrait.
We had a conversation. Politely. I’m more than willing to engage people in conversation and work with them in whatever way I can to help them with their concerns as irrational as they may be. But in the end I’m going to shoot. It just has to be done. It needs to be done.
I believe in leaving the place better than you found it. When I was a kid the rule was when you went backpacking you brought out one piece of trash more than you brought in. To leave the place a little bit better for the next guy.
By teaching this guy a lesson I believe that I’ve left the place a little bit better for the next photographer. I believe that by feeling the push back over his actions that Anto will next time think twice about challenging a photographer over his legal rights.
I may be wrong on this. Who knows. But the alternative in the way of reinforcing bad behavior just doesn’t work for me.
Thomas:
I agreed with your original posting, and now after having read the comments and your follow-up post, it only reinforces my belief that you were completely right. I hope I have the guts to stand up like you did when my moment comes. . . as I’m sure it eventually will.
Next time, take Scoble and his video camera along. That would make all the more powerful an argument on your behalf.
Tom,
I can’t believe that you came to SoCal and didn’t contact me!
Anyway, way to stand your ground. As a LEO my self, I’m curious about what will happen the first time I’m approached in this manner.
Thomas I knew that with my short response I’d get this reply. To be blunt I see no difference in the error of his response than with the error of yours. Right or not your actions are just as much of an “asshole” response as his happened to be. Does that improve things? On this side of the fence I’d say clearly not. Doubt I’m going to change your perspective, but I can tell you as an outside viewer I measure your response as an even worse reaction because your actions have greater impact. Your comments and views will be longer lasting possibly impacting this guys business. Something I find ironic considering you head a business.
Sure in the short term maybe you taught him a lesson, but in the long run with this type of response you’re just having malicious revenge. I see no value in it. If it makes you feel like you’re accomplishing something then like I said this falls into the realm of respectful disagreement, but by taking this action you’re not helping Mr. Kamarian learn anything you’re exploiting the situation for personal gain that is really unwarranted. In fact as much as this businessman’s attitude rubs you the wrong way I think you stepped out of the bound of good taste and mutual respect and puts you in as bad a light as Mr. Kamarian put himself.
I can’t believe that you came to SoCal and didn’t contact me!
Hey Trevor, sorry about that. It was a short trip, Fri - Sun. Mostly with the family but I got out for a couple of night shoots.
I posted on Twitter to see if anyone wanted to go out but didn’t get any takers. So my brother Jeremiah and I went out on our own. Next time Pal.
Certainly your interaction with someone telling you that you couldn’t take photos when you are in law enforcement yourself would be an interesting one.
I agree with your stance completely–be a mirror–polite gets polite, asshole gets asshole.
Appeasing bullies just teaches them that it really does work.
But I’d watch your step–as an ex-attorney he has all the skills necessary to be a pro se frivilous lawsuit dickhead. And he certainly seems to have the personality for it. All it costs him is his time, you spend a mint hiring a lawyer. Ugly, ugly, ugly.
If the guy is an former attorney, he probably wasn’t a very good one. Who knows? Maybe he’s in the cigar business, now, because he had to close down his law practice?
Why you hatin’ on Armenians.
It’s amazing how people get upset about photography. When I was at Ofoto, I took my Lomo everywhere (come on, they’re funny) and would take pictures of anything and everything.
Best was when I was caught taking a bad photo of a friend in a store, and the clerk started laughing so hard he had to leave.
In regards to your approach and what you did… I think there are trade offs either way. I’m glad, though, that someone is pushing the issue, though I’m not sure that picking on this particular individual does much. Readers of this blog all probably agree with you with regards to photographer’s rights. In the end it doesn’t seem to do much other than to make you feel better and to make Mr. Kamarian feel bad.
Also, at the risk of sounding PC, what does “This is America” have to do with it? Even for Americans, I’m sure this issue has and in some regards continues to be controversial. Even many Americans (and are you sure that Mr. Kamarian isn’t American by citizenship?) would confront you in the same manner.
Also, at the risk of sounding PC, what does “This is America” have to do with it? Even for Americans, I’m sure this issue has and in some regards continues to be controversial. Even many Americans (and are you sure that Mr. Kamarian isn’t American by citizenship?) would confront you in the same manner.
Ted Kamarian’s citizenship or ethnicity have nothing to do with my comments about this being America, although in hindsight I can certainly see how they might be taken that way.
I’m proud to be an American photographer and shooting in America. Say what you will about patriotism and politics and all that, but I am incredibly privileged to live in a country that affords me these kinds of freedoms. Freedom to shoot. Freedom to express myself. And freedom of speech to blog about my encounter.
Some countries do not share America’s freedoms with regards to photography. My emphasis on this being America was to point out to this individual that by contrast to other places, I had every right to shoot from a public street.
Why you hatin’ on Armenians.
Hah, funny one Jeremy. Actually I love the Armenian people. It would be cliche to say some of my best friends are Armenians, but actually my grandfather is Armenian
The best thing about having an Armenian in the family is the food!
But I’d watch your step–as an ex-attorney he has all the skills necessary to be a pro se frivilous lawsuit dickhead. And he certainly seems to have the personality for it. All it costs him is his time, you spend a mint hiring a lawyer. Ugly, ugly, ugly.
Roger, I’m not too worried about this. One lock solid defense in a libel case is the truth. And everything I’ve written here is true. There were witnesses. The cop, my brother, other bystanders.
A frivolous lawsuit on his part would only dramatically put more light on the issue and provide more publicity on what a jerk this guy is. It would not benefit him to sue me.
My own view is that fear of frivolous lawsuits should not deter one from doing what they feel is right. Everything I did was legal and I’m comfortable with this post as it stands.
Hopefully Mr. Kamarian chimes in at some point. It would be nice to get his perspective and an apology.
Hey Thomas ! I would like to post this conversation on my German blog with the image … Would you allow that ?
Hey Thomas ! I would like to post this conversation on my German blog with the image … Would you allow that ?
Martin, sure, no problem.
Cool, thanks Thomas !
>>By creating a negative reinforcement with his abusiveness I’ve taught this bully a lesson.< <
I doubt seriously that he’s learned any lesson. He’ll treat the next person exactly the same.
Maybe it makes you feel good to have protected your “rights”…but you can be in the right and wrong at the same time.
If someone asks that you not do something that makes them uncomfortable, common sense says engage them. That makes everyones life a little bit better.
And whats with the name calling?
>>By creating a negative reinforcement with his abusiveness I’ve taught this bully a lesson.< <
I doubt seriously that he’s learned any lesson. He’ll treat the next person exactly the same.
Maybe it makes you feel good to have protected your “rights”…but you can be in the right and wrong at the same time.
If someone asks that you not do something that makes them uncomfortable, common sense says engage them. That makes everyones life a little bit better.
And whats with the name calling?
I agree 100% about what you did. I am not a photographer by any means but standing up for yourself is something I identify with. If doing something as innocent as taking a picture can’t be worked out with civil conversation I can’t imagine what this guy would be like under heightened circumstances.
Also if this happened to me I would be bitter about it so your tone doesn’t throw me off at all. Sometimes you just can’t take the highroad. If somebody put their hands on me to stop something within my rights I sure as hell would be calling them an asshole!
gg
In the current political climate, during a time when civil liberties and rights are being threatened, I think you absolutely did the right(and patriotic) thing. There are way too many bullies trying to run the show these days. So, thank you!
BTW, increduble grab shot of the cigar-lawyer-asshole guy. Very impressive! Reminds me of old newsreel footage of — maybe Spiro Agnew?!
Nice work Thomas! Both for the photos and for standing up against this guy.
You have to wonder what he was so afraid of? It is only more publicity for him. If he wasn’t such a jerk I might have bought a cigar from him next time I was in town.
Thomas,
I believe you were in the right in this particular instance. I actually live in Pasadena and used to work at 21 Choices which is on De Lacey and Colorado, probably a block north from Cigars by Chivas. I will personally go by and photograph the sign this week and repost it here. I’m glad we can all work together for photographers rights.
Taking the so-called “high road” wouldn’t have accomplished anything at all. It would have just reinforced Kamarian’s misguided belief that he could push people around at will. Thomas did the right thing. It sounds like he stayed cool and collected, and he was most definitely in the right. I wish more people would stand up to bullies like Kamarian.
Everyone has the right to ask not to be photographed. It is your choice if you want to be an asshole and still take their picture even after they’ve asked for you not to.
hahaha
thanks for posting this link, th
i think the core issues remain unchanged: the guy had an issue and took it to the next level
the high road? not sure what all that means anymore in the day and age of extravagantly selfish, self-willed bullies and A$$holes
i think the real meat is that the story GIVES THE SHOT an extra bump. it lifts the original photo that you took into the realm of socially interested documentation
however, the politics of the shot are sad, imo. i guess i am not “afraid” of the direction that surveilance equipment is going in, but the issues of personal privacy are definitely going to go out the window as people begin the delightful process of surveilling each other on a regular basis
personally, i admire you so much for never responding physically to the people you meet. you are upper eschelon for that. i would be hard pressed not to mix it up with someone who was attacking me while i was out having a great evening with my brother and minding my own business taking pictures on the street!!!!
cheers, good man
torbakhopper
Thomas,
You did not teach this man a thing. You’ve created a situation where the next photographer is going to get a larger dose of aggression because you did nothing to diffuse the situation.
I might suggest that a bit of honey goes much further and ultimately will win you more respect. I have found that explaining my purpose will often make people more comfortable. “Are you a reporter? No, I am a freelance photographer, I’m working on a project about Neon Signs, and you’ve got some great neon here!” Flatter does get you places.
-Rebecca
Rebecca: It’s surprising but the “catch flies with honey” approach doesn’t always work in my experience. This was a different situation because I was inside the place of business in question, but still an unnecessarily awkward and myopic exchange about whether or not I should be taking photos of their establishment with my cameraphone: cupcake photos too hot for flickr. I told them I’m a huge fan and want to tell my friends how good their food is and put the photos on flickr to show them off. I was told that I shouldn’t take pictures of their stuff with my cameraphone and should instead “seek permission ahead of time” and “request them to set up a photoshoot” if I want to photograph their food. Kind of short-sighted if you ask me.
Extraface,
I read your full entry and I have to commend you for your approach. You entered into a thoughtful, respectful dialogue. You might not have fully swayed this woman but it sounds as if you did you best to diffuse the situation, explain your intentions and you made her think rather than pushing her to stop communication and turn to an angry tirade.
There are reasons that people act the way they do and most of them are based on fear. Perhaps Mr. Kamarian was afraid that Thomas was working for a competitor or maybe an ex-employee had threatened him with a law suit. Just maybe he thought Thomas was casing the place so he could break in to the building later. Thomas knows that he wasn’t involved in any of those scenarios but how would Mr. Kamarian? Without respectful and clear communication people are left to believe their own worst fears.
I can only hope that Mr. Hawk will think about how his actions and words are affecting the people he is interacting with in the future and works to put these people at ease rather than on the defensive.
-Rebecca
Rebecca beat me to the point and more eloquently expressed what I was going to comment too, with respect to looking at things from the other side’s perspective. Not every case is a power hungry security guard trying to exert control where he feels he can.
Consider this: The was a cop _inside_ the store. Coincidence or was there more to it?
I re-read your entry several times to find out why you would go to such extreme as to repeatedly call him an asshole and didn’t see the justification. Sure, he appeared stubborn, unaware of the law and lashed out at you to grab his camera, but that still doesn’t merit branding him the way you did.
You’ve done a lot of great coverage here for photographer’s rights and clearly it’s a topic you’re going to continue to be passionate about, but it sounds like in this particular case, you’ve forgotten to give someone the benefit of the doubt because of the way others have tried to keep you from you right to take pictures in public.
Hey Thomas ,, I just added you to my Twitter ,, a little late to the party.
Bet your glad/relieved he didnt get a hold of the 5D .
Perhaps a large /Scoble /Photowalk by his store soon , with many people may cure his colon
Anyways , as always a good read .
John Piercy
http://www.johnpiercy.com
Wow is all I have to say. It might have been legal for you to shoot those photos, but it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if publishing this post comes back to haunt you. It might just be grounds for a defamation suite against you and your incredulously cocky attitude. For starters you call him an a-hole repeatedly, but more importantly, you’ve presented a dialog that seems to quote him verbatim, and my guess is you weren’t actually recording the conversation or taking notes, and thus the quotes you’ve attributed to him may not be accurate. Anyway, one thing is for sure, I’d personally never hire you as a photojournalist or photographer in a million years — despite the fact that you were right in your legal right to take photos. Being right, and being unprofessional or two totally different things, and if that’s how you handle difficult situations, I’d never want you representing or participating in any event that I had something to do with, not to mention the fact that you then had to go blab/gloat about it publicly on the web. Anyway, to each his own, but I’d prefer someone who could rise above that pettiness. The guy didn’t want to be photographed, you wanted a photo of his neon sign, take your picture and move on, what’s the big deal — maybe next time you’ll still be right, but the antagonist will pull out a gun…
For starters you call him an a-hole repeatedly, but more importantly, you’ve presented a dialog that seems to quote him verbatim, and my guess is you weren’t actually recording the conversation or taking notes, and thus the quotes you’ve attributed to him may not be accurate.
Anonymous, contrary to your opinion, calling someone an asshole is generally not grounds for a defamation lawsuit. Asshole is accepted by most people that it is not a literal description. Although most people do have assholes. Asshole is a more broad generic word to describe someone who you think is a jerk.
And contrary to what may or may not be allowed in other countries. Expressing your opinion that someone is an asshole or a jerk in the U.S. is something that is allowed.
In America you can even call the President of the United States an asshole. Imagine that.
In terms of the material fact as to how the situation went down. Truth is an absolute defense against libel lawsuits. I have witnesses who were there and there was a cop there as well who witnessed what went down.
Bringing a frivolous lawsuit designed to intimidate me and squelch free speech would only backfire and generate more publicity over this incident than already has been generated. It’s not something that I’m worried about.
Anyway, one thing is for sure, I’d personally never hire you as a photojournalist or photographer in a million years -
Perfect. Looks like I won’t be shooting the anonymous posters anonymous convention this year. Darn.
The guy didn’t want to be photographed, you wanted a photo of his neon sign, take your picture and move on, what’s the big deal
This is where you are wrong. Because for me to “take my picture” actually involves time and multiple pictures. And he was being an *asshole* and trying to prevent me from taking my photo of his neon sign. I had no interest in taking his photo until he decided to be an *asshole* about it. He decided to try and restrict a freedom of mine and then thought he would intimidate me with the threat of arrest which is laughable. This is called being a bully and how I deal with bullies is fight back.
Maybe that will get me shot someday. Maybe not. But I could have gotten shot shooting in West Oakland last night and I went and shot anyways. I could be shot on the freeway driving to work. And yet I still get in the car and go.
I doubt someone is going to shoot me on a public street for taking photographs of a neon sign.
I don’t believe in physical violence myself. But I could equally say that Anto potentially puts himself in harms way when he physically tries to grab someone and touches them. A lot of people feel that once he makes contact with them physically that this gives them the right to react with violence. I think it’s his hotheadedness that put him at risk far more than I.
Thomas Hawk, are you even a human being?
There is such a thing called etiquette-when someone asks you to stop photographing their store or property but you instead say “No, asshole, I won’t stop” and you actually start photographing them too, you really become part of the problem yourself.
Thomas,
Looks like there’s a bunch of assholes commenting on your site.
Keep up the fight. Text does not convey the tone of voice, and I can see how people might think you reacted harshly.
PEOPLE, remember, it’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.
If this guy came out of his store and said a Black guy couldn’t stand on his sidewalk, would you all condemn the black guy for standing up for his rights? No! Unless you’re an asshole.
This is the same issue–”Civil Rights.”
People, people, people…GET A CLUE!
Thomas Hawk proves that he’s the asshole by way of his tactics.
He had a choice in how to act and instead of saying to the shopkeeper something like:
“I love the way your shop looks and your neon sign is awesome. I’m from out of town and would love the opportunity to take some pictures. I would even give you some copies and you can use them to promote your shop if you’d like.”
He badgers the guy and further provokes the situation. Thomas Hawk is doing society a complete disservice by spreading this kind of vitriol.
Thomas Hawk proves that he’s the asshole by way of his tactics.
Thomas Hawk, are you even a human being?
Anonymous #1 and Anonymous #2,
Don’t you think it’s a handsome portrait? I mean yes it’s grainy and all, but the way that his mouth is open all flabbergasted like. And boy oh boy you should have seen him afterwards, damn hoping mad.
He had a choice in how to act and instead of saying to the shopkeeper something like:
“I love the way your shop looks and your neon sign is awesome. I’m from out of town and would love the opportunity to take some pictures. I would even give you some copies and you can use them to promote your shop if you’d like.”
He badgers the guy and further provokes the situation. Thomas Hawk is doing society a complete disservice by spreading this kind of vitriol.
If memory serves correct, I don’t think I was really given this opportunity. As soon as I answered the question about my not being a “reporter” (he didn’t ask of course whether or not I was a blogger), which I didn’t have to answer by the way, I was immediately hit with the claim that I wasn’t allowed to take photos of the store.
This guy thought he was pretty much a bad ass and could do whatever he wanted and push people around. He needed to be put in his place. That’s what’s happens to bully’s.
Anonymous #1 and #2, maybe next time he won’t be so much a bully to the next guy with a camera. I tell you one thing. Next time I’m in Pasadena I’ll definitely be by again to shoot his store some more.
His portrait really is handsome don’t you think? And plus now when people Google his name they can immediately get a post that has the address and phone number of his store in it. Helpful I think.
I placed a call to him just to let him know what I thought of him.
hehe
The de-evolution of man right before our very eyes. You are sick sick people.
You should be glad that there are people like this shopkeeper in the world.
If everyone was happy about you photographing them and their property, you’d have nothing to blog about.
Exotic Ho Chi Minh City, still referred to as ‘Saigon’ by many, has preserved its distinctly Asian feel and ancient culture, where monks pray in the numerous pagodas, temples and mosques. The capital Hanoi, is a pleasant and charming city of lakes, shaded boulevards and public parks. The old quarter, built around the Hoan Kiem Lake, is an architectural museum-piece characterised by its narrow streets. Ha Long Bay, with its 3000-plus islands rising from the clear, emerald waters, dotted with beaches and grottoes created by waves, is one of Vietnam’s natural marvels.
I know Mr. Kamarian and he is far from an asshole or bully. If you took the time to introduce yourself and asked to photograph his business there would not have been a problem. I have photographed many business properties and always make the effort to talk to the owner first. Common courtesy goes a long way.
It’s people like you that give photographers a bad name. You are no better than the paparazzi that bait their subjects. Most of us practice common courtesy, of which you have none.
Jeff
Dear Thomas Hawk:
I myself am a photographer part time, and I myself run into individuals who want to know just what on earth am I up to when I am shooting pictues in public. I kindly explain to the indivdual/individuals what the whole purpose of me shooting pictures around their establishment is all about. I think you forgot to go into detail telling this man just exactly what you were doing. He might have had a different outlook on what you were doing and let you take as many photos of his neon sign instead of coming off on you in a defensive manner. I mention this because most of the time this is the way I handle it and I would say 99% of the time, I get the respect from the public. Please, please,please, try to be more kind to the public as incidents like this give us a bad name, and will make matters worst for future photographers. Also using the word as_hole on this website is hurting us photographers. Can you please remove this and use another word, like rude person or unplesant business owner. This is really making us look bad. My son was the one who pointed out this website to me and I can honestly say, I was embarrased, and explain NOT all photographers are like this. I am sure you can be level headed and do us all a favor and not post such stuff. Now a days we need to all get along as best as we can, and try not to sweat the little stuff. Thanks for your time. D.M.
As a smoke shop owner in Massachusetts, I must say your arrogance is astounding. I have been approached over 1o times in my last 15 years in business by photographers wanting to take pictures both inside my shop and outside. Only one did not seek my permission or FIRST tell me why or what they were taking pictures of as a courtesy.
I am aware that by law, you do not need to ask permission to take pictures. Were there not many other neon signs to take pictures of ? You said that area of Pasadena was a hot area for these signs. When met with resistance you were more obstinant than Anto. Why not take pictures of other neon signs ?
As a retailer, I am more than willing to appease news crews, photographers and the like, sometimes the publicity is good for business. Did you bother to ask Anto what his objections were ?
Why not ? I can’t imagine why a savvy retailer wouldn’t want potentially good publicity, can you ? Do you even care ? I think your agenda supersedes all else.
One of my best friends is a highly regarded photographer who has won more major photography awards than I can count. Do you know how many times he has taken pictures of people who originally didn’t want their picture by being persuasive rather than being stubborn ? If not, he just moved on. There are other fish in the sea. Doesn’t sound like that picture was your shot at a Pulitzer.
Even more sadly, I was “googling” Anto’s web site to congratulate him for his cover photo and story in Aprils “Smokeshop” magazine when I saw Anto and asshole plastered everywhere.
Had you not placed “asshole” tags everywhere in conjunction with Anto’s name and store I would have been more understanding of your blog. Your maliciousness makes you look worse than Anto. Your thinly disguised attempt to “get even” detracts from whatever message about photographers’ rights you are trying to portray.
As others have said, you haven’t taught anyone anything. Just how mean people can be.
Count me out of your smear campaign.
David Hamparian
Did you bother to ask Anto what his objections were ?
Did Anto even bother to tell me what his objections were before telling me that I was not allowed to photograph legally and tell me that he was going to have me arrested?
Did he bother to tell me what his ojbections were before he tried to assault me?
If someone wants to be an asshole then they get what they deserve. Had Anto decided to handle things differently this might have gone differently.
He asked me if I was a reporter and I said “no.” He then said well then you can’t take pictures of my store. If instead he had said, well if you are not a reporter why do you want to take pictures of my store I would have been more than happy to continue engaging him for as long as he liked. I’d still have shot the store but I’d have given him all the background info about me and what I do that he wanted.
But when he decides to shut me down and say that I’m not allowed to shoot his store providing me no reason, rational or otherwise, why, and then threaten to have me arrested, you see then I’m not in such a good mood to try and figure out the inner workings of his mind or “why” he doesn’t want me to shoot his store. Especially when the outcome is going to be the same either way.
I’ve dealt with dozens of other store owners, security guards, etc. and when they want to be polite and have a conversation we can do that. When they want to shut me down and then threaten me with arrest and then try to assault me, well, then it’s a different story.
Congrats to Anto for his cover story in the April issue of Smoke Shop. Maybe next time he’ll decide to have a conversation with a photographer rather than to threaten them with arrest for doing something that they are legally entitled to do.
You Mr. Hawk are the asshole!
JD
I can understand his emotion because of the fact that his store was burglarized not so long ago. The burglars cased the joint and so when he saw you he had an immediate visceral reaction.
Dear sir,
Your point would mean more if you were, perhaps, documenting something poignant when you where accosted like genocide, poverty, or soldiers deploying for Iraq and then returning, fewer in number than when they left.
I wish you would pick your battles more carefully. With your fiery heart, you could do a lot a good for downtrodden peoples who truly need to have their situations documented and explained. Instead, you use your indomitable strength for something as petty and as unbecoming of your character as this scuffle.
Its is absolutely wonderful that you are so patriotic and you revel in the freedoms this country provides. Why not see about traveling to Iraq and turning your wonderful camera on those who fight to protect your freedoms everyday. I’m sure the families at home would be estatic to recieve pictures of their loved ones from overseas, especially when time consuming duties prevent a lot of the soldiers from taking their own.
When you are done in Iraq, why not travel to Darfur, Sudan and document whether or not UN deployment of peacekeepers is having any effect, or to Banda Achee in Thailand to document how restoration of the tsunami area has progressed.
If international travel is not for you, I hear New Orleans, LA is still in dire need of exposure, as rebuilding there still proceeds at a very slow pace. Why, I am sure that even in your own city there are downtrodden people who struggles the world would love to learn about and embrace.
I implore you. Please use your talent and skill for things more worthy of them. Its a blessing that you have them in the first place. As you have so often said yourself, it is a blessing to be a in country that allows you to hone your photographic skill at just about any location you choose. So please, I implore, you to abandon petty debates such as this one (which deep down you know have only and will only benefit you in the long run) and take up the causes of the poor disenfranchised souls who truly deserve your “publicity”.
Thank you for your time,
L.J.
I worked for Anto and you are right he looks for this kind of fight and is a vary mean man
R
Photographers have certain rights and responsibilities and so do CEOs.
Sure, Thomas Hawk, CEO of Zooomr, could have promptly moved on to another neon sign, but why should he have to do that simply because an arrogant bully feels the need to exert his self-assumed authority on a stranger taking pictures of his shop from the outside in a public space?
Do you think that the behavior by Anto Kamarian, “CEO” of Cigars by Chivas was appropriate? Is physical assault ok simply because someone refuses to obey a command to put away a camera and not photograph in a public space? Would physical assault be ok if someone refused to put out their cigar if smoking it in a public place where smoking is allowed?
Somebody attempted to justify Anto’s actions because of a previous crime, but if Anto Kamarian was so worried about crime from a recent burglary, why didn’t he call the police from the start or ask his police buddy to come out and talk to Thomas Hawk instead of approaching asking if he’s a reporter.
Clearly, Anto’s police buddy realized Anto was in the wrong and realized the potential gravity of the situation and attempted to pull Anto inside before he really got himself into trouble.
Frankly, Thomas Hawk did take the higher road by refusing to be pushed around by a bully and avoiding a physical altercation. One could debate endlessly on how the situation and the response to the situation should have been handled. However, at the end of the day, whether you like it or not, Hawk stood by his principal beliefs, for his rights as a photographer, and for the rights of the community which he represents. Thus, he felt obliged to share his experience with the online community, however unhappy his words make some feel.
Thanks for sharing.
RN
You’ve got to stand for something or you’ll fall for anything.
You aught to be a grown man, not a puppet on a string….
Look at all this crap. The shop owner was wrong, you were right. It’s as simple as that.
At some point, his police officer friend even told him he was wrong, and yet he persisted.
It would be wonderful if people did not simply cave and move on when others attempt to bully them and use fear to take away their civil rights.
I don’t know if this guy is really an asshole, but he certainly was full of himself and he honestly needed to be taught the difference between public space and private property. And I’m glad you showed him the difference in a way he’ll remember.
I had a similar experience recently on the other side of Old Town Pasadena, at the One Colorado building, with a security firm called “Andrews International,” detailed here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/muzzlehatch/2320597432/
Stumbled upon your blog via the recent SFMOMA incident, anyways, here’s the cigar shop as captured by Google’s StreetView.
Cigars by Chivas on StreetView
This guy thinks he is all that……But he is just the ultimate loser. He went to law school to get his JD, but he never could pass the Bar exam. Hence, never was able to become a lawyer. But he states that 10 years age he left his law practice. What a crock of shit…..He is full of lies! Stands to reason that he learned nothing from going to law school the way he reacted to you! he also thinks that he is a great womanizer or “player”. He couldn’t attract flies with shit !!!!