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	<title>Comments on: My Dinner With Microsoft&#8217;s Jim Allchin</title>
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		<title>By: Linking Park</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2005/04/my-dinner-with-microsofts-jim-allchin.html/comment-page-1#comment-34135</link>
		<dc:creator>Linking Park</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 21:33:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=4021#comment-34135</guid>
		<description>[...] brief review, filled with effusive praise and awe, of Microsoft’s yet-to-released OS [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] brief review, filled with effusive praise and awe, of Microsoft’s yet-to-released OS [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2005/04/my-dinner-with-microsofts-jim-allchin.html/comment-page-1#comment-19945</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Feb 2007 08:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=4021#comment-19945</guid>
		<description>Tame Bear:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Interesting comment. I switched 18 months ago and while I was fairly proficient with Windows, my conceptual vision of the file system was lacklustre at best. The whole c: program files, Windows folder, Documents and Settings etc was a hard one to grasp.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;After I switched to OSX, well, I have become way more knowledgeable in how a file system works.  Its so logically laid out in OSX.  Your System folder, and your Home folder. The way all setting information is stored with in Librarty (cookies, preferences, bookmarks etc) made it real simple when backing up.  I never really figured that kind of stuff out on Windows.  But now I know how it works on Windows, but it definitely isnt as logical. It took going to the Mac to kind of wake me up in the Windows world.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I use Vista at the office and they have tried somewhat to make things easier (dropping the My, having a User/Home folder etc), but my point is that its those small things that make the OSX experience that much fullfilling. It isnt necessarily as much a feature contest for me. OSx just seems better thought out. Sure, options are generally more limited, but the default way of doing things are almost always the best and most logical (except the damn iPhoto folder ordering my photos by date/roll!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tame Bear:</p>
<p>Interesting comment. I switched 18 months ago and while I was fairly proficient with Windows, my conceptual vision of the file system was lacklustre at best. The whole c: program files, Windows folder, Documents and Settings etc was a hard one to grasp.</p>
<p>After I switched to OSX, well, I have become way more knowledgeable in how a file system works.  Its so logically laid out in OSX.  Your System folder, and your Home folder. The way all setting information is stored with in Librarty (cookies, preferences, bookmarks etc) made it real simple when backing up.  I never really figured that kind of stuff out on Windows.  But now I know how it works on Windows, but it definitely isnt as logical. It took going to the Mac to kind of wake me up in the Windows world.</p>
<p>I use Vista at the office and they have tried somewhat to make things easier (dropping the My, having a User/Home folder etc), but my point is that its those small things that make the OSX experience that much fullfilling. It isnt necessarily as much a feature contest for me. OSx just seems better thought out. Sure, options are generally more limited, but the default way of doing things are almost always the best and most logical (except the damn iPhoto folder ordering my photos by date/roll!)</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2005/04/my-dinner-with-microsofts-jim-allchin.html/comment-page-1#comment-19946</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=4021#comment-19946</guid>
		<description>Well done!&lt;br /&gt;http://cbhmkvdi.com/idvq/mdtc.html &#124; http://wjtnldhy.com/cmet/opce.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done!<br /><a href="http://cbhmkvdi.com/idvq/mdtc.html" rel="nofollow">http://cbhmkvdi.com/idvq/mdtc.html</a> | <a href="http://wjtnldhy.com/cmet/opce.html" rel="nofollow">http://wjtnldhy.com/cmet/opce.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2005/04/my-dinner-with-microsofts-jim-allchin.html/comment-page-1#comment-19947</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=4021#comment-19947</guid>
		<description>Great work!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://cbhmkvdi.com/idvq/mdtc.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;My homepage&lt;/a&gt; &#124; &lt;a href=&quot;http://vnaitdml.com/xzzv/rhpn.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Please visit&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great work!<br /><a href="http://cbhmkvdi.com/idvq/mdtc.html" rel="nofollow">My homepage</a> | <a href="http://vnaitdml.com/xzzv/rhpn.html" rel="nofollow">Please visit</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2005/04/my-dinner-with-microsofts-jim-allchin.html/comment-page-1#comment-19948</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=4021#comment-19948</guid>
		<description>Good design!&lt;br /&gt;[url=http://cbhmkvdi.com/idvq/mdtc.html]My homepage[/url] &#124; [url=http://yujvzfdx.com/sobo/mszt.html]Cool site[/url]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good design!<br />[url=http://cbhmkvdi.com/idvq/mdtc.html]My homepage[/url] | [url=http://yujvzfdx.com/sobo/mszt.html]Cool site[/url]</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2005/04/my-dinner-with-microsofts-jim-allchin.html/comment-page-1#comment-19949</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2005 21:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=4021#comment-19949</guid>
		<description>May I make a few suggestions for future blogs, and also for future Microsoft PR or other PR dinners. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Those of us inside the beltway experience many lobbying or networking dinners.  You are an influencer now - and as such - you&#039;re the focus of attention.  That&#039;s not a negative. Those of us that cared enough to read your article are not against you. We are for you.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;A few tips. Consider editing down your story. Take a few journalism classes to get to the points quicker and to pick out important points.  You don&#039;t need to repeat things. We read them the first time and repetition isn&#039;t necessary to that extent unless you&#039;re teaching a class.    Record the conversations to remind you of things,  and to hear the questions, answers, conversations and nuances again.  It&#039;s amazing what you&#039;ll learn after the beer and wine wears off, or when you&#039;re focusing on what others were trying to communicate when you have the time to decipher a meeting. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Remember a Microsoft PR Dinner is just that. In Washington, DC - they call these dinners lobbying.  There is no difference. That&#039;s neither a good comment or a bad comment about your dinner.  It is the way of the world. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;To the person who would not invite a woman just because it&#039;s a woman. I can&#039;t believe there was only one woman worthy of being invited. That is biased to believe that you are the community. As well -having other opinions, genders, beliefs, and those fresh to the scene and those who have been here longer allow you to grow in your own world.  Who is to judge who is deserving? &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Analyze the points Microsoft was trying to get across - and why they wanted you to be there. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;When someone is pressing you hard -convincing you (it&#039;s called lobbying in my hometown) that is when you should focus on the reason this is happening, what you&#039;re learning, anf what is missing from the converstation.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I do repeat. Please take a few minutes to edit down your stores - check out the &quot;wow&quot; repetition.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Are there more eloquent and descriptive words to use - or consider describing the scene, attitudes, and do bring that audio recorder.  If it&#039;s a dinner with that many bloggers - it&#039;s on the record.  If they say no to a recording - then do they respect your credibility.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You&#039;d never guess that I am a big fan of Microsoft.  I am one. I love the media center and windows media.  But - I also want to make sure they know the pros and cons to improve their products and services.  That to me - would be something you could do - to focus on better products and services for all of us. Figure out what are the biggest needs of your community and ask for them from your Microsoft friends.  This might be the needs of bloggers, or the needs of media center users, or whatever you do that creates a passion in your lives. Use these connections - as they use you - to create the life or community you want from blogging.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;- OZ - Beltway Journalist  -  I would have edited down this comment a few times if I would have put it on my blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May I make a few suggestions for future blogs, and also for future Microsoft PR or other PR dinners. </p>
<p>Those of us inside the beltway experience many lobbying or networking dinners.  You are an influencer now &#8211; and as such &#8211; you&#8217;re the focus of attention.  That&#8217;s not a negative. Those of us that cared enough to read your article are not against you. We are for you.  </p>
<p>A few tips. Consider editing down your story. Take a few journalism classes to get to the points quicker and to pick out important points.  You don&#8217;t need to repeat things. We read them the first time and repetition isn&#8217;t necessary to that extent unless you&#8217;re teaching a class.    Record the conversations to remind you of things,  and to hear the questions, answers, conversations and nuances again.  It&#8217;s amazing what you&#8217;ll learn after the beer and wine wears off, or when you&#8217;re focusing on what others were trying to communicate when you have the time to decipher a meeting. </p>
<p>Remember a Microsoft PR Dinner is just that. In Washington, DC &#8211; they call these dinners lobbying.  There is no difference. That&#8217;s neither a good comment or a bad comment about your dinner.  It is the way of the world. </p>
<p>To the person who would not invite a woman just because it&#8217;s a woman. I can&#8217;t believe there was only one woman worthy of being invited. That is biased to believe that you are the community. As well -having other opinions, genders, beliefs, and those fresh to the scene and those who have been here longer allow you to grow in your own world.  Who is to judge who is deserving? </p>
<p>Analyze the points Microsoft was trying to get across &#8211; and why they wanted you to be there. </p>
<p>When someone is pressing you hard -convincing you (it&#8217;s called lobbying in my hometown) that is when you should focus on the reason this is happening, what you&#8217;re learning, anf what is missing from the converstation.  </p>
<p>I do repeat. Please take a few minutes to edit down your stores &#8211; check out the &#8220;wow&#8221; repetition.  </p>
<p>Are there more eloquent and descriptive words to use &#8211; or consider describing the scene, attitudes, and do bring that audio recorder.  If it&#8217;s a dinner with that many bloggers &#8211; it&#8217;s on the record.  If they say no to a recording &#8211; then do they respect your credibility.  </p>
<p>You&#8217;d never guess that I am a big fan of Microsoft.  I am one. I love the media center and windows media.  But &#8211; I also want to make sure they know the pros and cons to improve their products and services.  That to me &#8211; would be something you could do &#8211; to focus on better products and services for all of us. Figure out what are the biggest needs of your community and ask for them from your Microsoft friends.  This might be the needs of bloggers, or the needs of media center users, or whatever you do that creates a passion in your lives. Use these connections &#8211; as they use you &#8211; to create the life or community you want from blogging.</p>
<p>- OZ &#8211; Beltway Journalist  &#8211;  I would have edited down this comment a few times if I would have put it on my blog.</p>
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		<title>By: shak</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2005/04/my-dinner-with-microsofts-jim-allchin.html/comment-page-1#comment-19950</link>
		<dc:creator>shak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2005 09:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=4021#comment-19950</guid>
		<description>Oh...the old word war between Windows and Linux/OS X lovers. Don&#039;t you guys get tired of it. Just calm down everybody.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Microsoft is doing something to make their product better. What&#039;s wrong with that fact? As for who&#039;s already better, who cares? as long as we keep using what we like and let the &quot;sheeple of the world&quot; use what they like.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;All of you...really...get a life !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh&#8230;the old word war between Windows and Linux/OS X lovers. Don&#8217;t you guys get tired of it. Just calm down everybody.</p>
<p>Microsoft is doing something to make their product better. What&#8217;s wrong with that fact? As for who&#8217;s already better, who cares? as long as we keep using what we like and let the &#8220;sheeple of the world&#8221; use what they like.</p>
<p>All of you&#8230;really&#8230;get a life !</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Hawk</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2005/04/my-dinner-with-microsofts-jim-allchin.html/comment-page-1#comment-19951</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Hawk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=4021#comment-19951</guid>
		<description>Alex,&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Your points are well taken.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Although I have been critical of Microsoft as well.  My review of their last Media Center released was entitled, Media Center 2005, Underwhelmed.  I&#039;ve been especially critical of what I think has been a slow adoption of cable/satellite TV capability for MCE.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;My recent decision to blog with JupiterResearch is in no way hazy.  It was simple.  They provided me with a copy of one of their research reports and I in turn blogged about the research.  No money exchanged hands although I could see where you might feel this would be of interest to Microsoft.  It was an interesting experience to blog about a perspective on a technology that is of great interest to me.  I think it was well worth doing.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I&#039;m not sure I&#039;d call Longhorn vaporware.  From what I saw it definitely does things that XP does not do and really fast.  I definitely think you will see this software actually released.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I was overly impressed with the fact that Senior Management of one of the largest publicly traded companies in the world would sit down with bloggers.  Yes.  And yes I am not used to dealing with company senior management.  Typically bloggers do not get this kind of access.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Thanks for stopping by Alex and I&#039;m looking forward to your impressions  of Longhorn when you have an opportunity at some point to try it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex,</p>
<p>Your points are well taken.  </p>
<p>Although I have been critical of Microsoft as well.  My review of their last Media Center released was entitled, Media Center 2005, Underwhelmed.  I&#8217;ve been especially critical of what I think has been a slow adoption of cable/satellite TV capability for MCE.  </p>
<p>My recent decision to blog with JupiterResearch is in no way hazy.  It was simple.  They provided me with a copy of one of their research reports and I in turn blogged about the research.  No money exchanged hands although I could see where you might feel this would be of interest to Microsoft.  It was an interesting experience to blog about a perspective on a technology that is of great interest to me.  I think it was well worth doing.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;d call Longhorn vaporware.  From what I saw it definitely does things that XP does not do and really fast.  I definitely think you will see this software actually released.</p>
<p>I was overly impressed with the fact that Senior Management of one of the largest publicly traded companies in the world would sit down with bloggers.  Yes.  And yes I am not used to dealing with company senior management.  Typically bloggers do not get this kind of access.</p>
<p>Thanks for stopping by Alex and I&#8217;m looking forward to your impressions  of Longhorn when you have an opportunity at some point to try it out.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Chu</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2005/04/my-dinner-with-microsofts-jim-allchin.html/comment-page-1#comment-19952</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Chu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=4021#comment-19952</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Thomas Hawk wrote:&lt;br /&gt;The fact that someone of his [Jim Allchin&#039;s] seniority would take the time to sit down with a bunch of non mainstream media folk is something that still baffles me. It also tells me that Microsoft gets it and that they recognize the importance of many of the rapidly emerging social and community aspects of blogging and the internet. I’m honored to have been included.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The reason? Simple. You, Thomas Hawk, are not a journalist, as you claim to be. You are &quot;media&quot; like the game press is &quot;media&quot;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;You are &lt;a href=&quot;http://thomashawk.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a self-admitted enthusiast, a hobbyist, a fanboy, and evangelist for Microsoft&lt;/a&gt; / Media Center. You have been singing the praises of Media Center for some time now, and posted blog links all over the blogosphere to tell everyone how great the product is. That&#039;s what Microsoft &quot;gets&quot;. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Could your &lt;a href=&quot;http://thomashawk.com/2005/03/blogging-with-jupiterresearch-and-how.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;hazy relationship&lt;/a&gt; with an analyst firm covering digital media have something to do with it? That&#039;s what Microsoft &quot;gets&quot;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Did the fact that &quot;Neil Charney, Senior Director of Windows Client Public Relations and Linda O&#039;Neil who is with Microsoft&#039;s PR firm Waggener Edstrom&quot; were at the dinner clue you in? How about the fact that Scoble, who is a Microsoft evangelist (nothing against Scoble; he&#039;s just doing his job) gave the invite? They like your uncritical view of Media Center and invited you because of that. &quot;I wrote Wow, with regards to Jim actually meeting with us and I have to add Wow, WOW!&quot; That&#039;s what Microsoft &quot;gets&quot;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Clearly you are not someone used to dealing with senior executives of major companies.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Your overwhelmingly positive reaction to what is effectively vaporware tells us that your critical skills have been found wanting.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Please dispense with the pretense of journalism.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&quot;I&#039;m honored to be included&quot;??? That&#039;s not the voice of a journalist. It&#039;s the voice of &lt;a href=&quot;http://thomashawk.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Thomas Hawk, poseur&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Still baffled?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;- Alex Chu&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;PS: I won&#039;t be surprised if you delete this post. I&#039;m not one to be so harsh normally but if you really don&#039;t get it, I hope this spells it out for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Thomas Hawk wrote:<br />The fact that someone of his [Jim Allchin's] seniority would take the time to sit down with a bunch of non mainstream media folk is something that still baffles me. It also tells me that Microsoft gets it and that they recognize the importance of many of the rapidly emerging social and community aspects of blogging and the internet. I’m honored to have been included.</i></p>
<p>The reason? Simple. You, Thomas Hawk, are not a journalist, as you claim to be. You are &#8220;media&#8221; like the game press is &#8220;media&#8221;.</p>
<p>You are <a href="http://thomashawk.com" rel="nofollow">a self-admitted enthusiast, a hobbyist, a fanboy, and evangelist for Microsoft</a> / Media Center. You have been singing the praises of Media Center for some time now, and posted blog links all over the blogosphere to tell everyone how great the product is. That&#8217;s what Microsoft &#8220;gets&#8221;. </p>
<p>Could your <a href="http://thomashawk.com/2005/03/blogging-with-jupiterresearch-and-how.html" rel="nofollow">hazy relationship</a> with an analyst firm covering digital media have something to do with it? That&#8217;s what Microsoft &#8220;gets&#8221;.</p>
<p>Did the fact that &#8220;Neil Charney, Senior Director of Windows Client Public Relations and Linda O&#8217;Neil who is with Microsoft&#8217;s PR firm Waggener Edstrom&#8221; were at the dinner clue you in? How about the fact that Scoble, who is a Microsoft evangelist (nothing against Scoble; he&#8217;s just doing his job) gave the invite? They like your uncritical view of Media Center and invited you because of that. &#8220;I wrote Wow, with regards to Jim actually meeting with us and I have to add Wow, WOW!&#8221; That&#8217;s what Microsoft &#8220;gets&#8221;.</p>
<p>Clearly you are not someone used to dealing with senior executives of major companies.</p>
<p>Your overwhelmingly positive reaction to what is effectively vaporware tells us that your critical skills have been found wanting.</p>
<p>Please dispense with the pretense of journalism.</p>
<p>&#8220;I&#8217;m honored to be included&#8221;??? That&#8217;s not the voice of a journalist. It&#8217;s the voice of <a href="http://thomashawk.com" rel="nofollow">Thomas Hawk, poseur</a>.</p>
<p>Still baffled?</p>
<p>- Alex Chu</p>
<p>PS: I won&#8217;t be surprised if you delete this post. I&#8217;m not one to be so harsh normally but if you really don&#8217;t get it, I hope this spells it out for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr. Mike</title>
		<link>http://thomashawk.com/2005/04/my-dinner-with-microsofts-jim-allchin.html/comment-page-1#comment-19953</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr. Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Apr 2005 03:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clients.emmense.com/thomashawk/?p=4021#comment-19953</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;At home, however, I am a Windows user, and i am excited about getting these features in Windows. What&#039;s so wrong with that? I&#039;m sure many windows users are in a similar position, so please, stop all this moaning and let us windows users be excited about getting these new features.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Well, well, there&#039;s nothing wrong with THAT. But something is wrong when those features are suddenly called &lt;b&gt;innovative&lt;/b&gt;, or any other sensation going beyond the mere addition into the OS.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Credit where credit is due, i think if you copy, you should at least not pretend you invented it IF you already aren&#039;t giving explicit credit.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;By the way Tiger doesn&#039;t need me to get a new Mac, it just runs fine on my 3+ years old G4 and it even gave it a VERY nice speed up.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;MS is not about making GOOD Software, its about creating income and second creating a userbase thats first being bound and later abused</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>At home, however, I am a Windows user, and i am excited about getting these features in Windows. What&#8217;s so wrong with that? I&#8217;m sure many windows users are in a similar position, so please, stop all this moaning and let us windows users be excited about getting these new features.</i></p>
<p>Well, well, there&#8217;s nothing wrong with THAT. But something is wrong when those features are suddenly called <b>innovative</b>, or any other sensation going beyond the mere addition into the OS.</p>
<p>Credit where credit is due, i think if you copy, you should at least not pretend you invented it IF you already aren&#8217;t giving explicit credit.</p>
<p>By the way Tiger doesn&#8217;t need me to get a new Mac, it just runs fine on my 3+ years old G4 and it even gave it a VERY nice speed up.</p>
<p>MS is not about making GOOD Software, its about creating income and second creating a userbase thats first being bound and later abused</p>
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